#critlib 2016-11-01: academic libraries & the student loan crisis

Archive of the November 1, 2016 #critlib chat on academic libraries & the student loan crisis, moderated by @kevinseeber @modbrarian & @beccakatherine. For more info about #critlib, including past and future chats, visit http://critlib.org/

  1. Readings and questions for next week's #critlib are up! Join us at 9 p.m. eastern/8 central/7 mountain/6 pacific.  http://critlib.org/student-loan-crisis/ 
  2. Quick note about #critlib tomorrow: You don't need to be an academic librarian to participate! Q's allow for responses from all lib people.
  3. TONIGHT (Tues. 6pm Pacific/9pm Eastern): #critlib chat on student loan crisis! How can librarians make a difference?  http://critlib.org/student-loan-crisis/ 
  4. I too will miss so I'll just pile on w mention that student loan debt is crushing LIS workers too, esp given low salaries. #critlib  https://twitter.com/kellymce/status/793530181998608384 
  5. I want to follow the #critlib discussion tonight but based on my mini meltdown last week re: my loans maybe I should catch this one later
  6. Alright friends! Grab a stash of leftover Halloween candy, turn down the volume on the ballgame, and get ready for #critlib in 30 minutes.
  7. in 30 minutes, we can talk about how my $15,700 in student loans is relatively "good" because it's below average of my age peers. #critlib
  8. Acknowledging my utter mountain of student debt always makes me vomity; eager for commiseration/ideas for helping today's students! #critlib
  9. "POC have additional competencies that we carry in the workplace" #critlib
  10. $29,474.27 in the hole with one more semester to go! MLIS student/soon to be librarian ready for tonight's #critlib  http://critlib.org/student-loan-crisis 
  11. Hello and welcome to #critlib! Tonight we’re discussing the U.S. student loan crisis, and how libraries fit into the discussion.
  12. We’ll have four questions tonight, coming from three moderators: @modbrarian, @beccakatharine, and me, @kevinseeber. #critlib
  13. Each #critlib question will begin with the letter “Q,” e.g. “Q1,” “Q2,” and you can answer each by starting your tweet with “A1,” “A2,” etc.
  14. Fair warning, there might be some jargon tonight. To help with that, we have definitions on the #critlib website:  http://critlib.org/student-loan-crisis/ 
  15. For reference I did some quick math and I have ~$118k in loans. Most of that is interest. #critlib
  16. This page on the #critlib site also has links to tonight’s readings and questions, if you’d like to review them.  http://critlib.org/student-loan-crisis/ 
  17. If there are any additional terms or concepts you don’t understand, please tweet @ one of the moderators and we’ll try to help out! #critlib
  18. Let’s get started with introductions! Please tell us your name and a bit about yourself, and don’t forget to include the #critlib hashtag.
  19. Kevin here, I'm an academic instruction librarian in Denver, CO. Watching the ballgame in the background. #critlib
  20. Hi ya'll. When I am not RT'ing @kevinseeber for this chat. I am James a ref/inst librarian working in Wisconsin. #critlib
  21. Hi #critlib! Liz, instruction librn in VA, reeling from my uni pres's oddly timely announcement that our budget may be cut by 7.5% for FY18!
  22. Hi! I'm a final-year MLIS candidate at UW in Seattle - I'm also in class right now so will mostly be lurking! Nice to meet you #critlib
  23. Hi #critlib, I'm an academic cataloger in the middle of Minnesota. Let's go Cubs!!! 🐻⚾
  24. Hey #critlib Academic librarian in California. Finished MLIS 3 years ago, kid in undergrad now.
  25. Hi #critlib I'm Justin: ref, instruction, emerging tech. Don't watch sports but my sister got me watching the world series...
  26. Hi! Rachel here, Teaching & Learning Librarian in Denver. Lots of personal exp w/student loan debt. #critlib
  27. Academic librarian in NYC here, lurking tonight. I'm super super lucky and was able to pay off all student loans #critlib
  28. I've got student loans! And opinions on student loans! #critlib
  29. Hey all y'all. I'm a ref/instruction librarian in the Hudson Valley. watching on the sidelines tonight while unpacking from a move #critlib
  30. Hi all! I'm a MSLIS candidate, and can definitely relate to tonight's topic #critlib
  31. Hello #critlib 🙋🏼I'm Rachel - academic librarian in DC area. Leader of MLIS students and teacher of FY students 🤗
  32. I really don't want to cross sportsball and #critlib, but that grand slam from Russell just now...
  33. Hi #critlib ! Current MSLIS student from Pratt here! much in debt and still a year to go!
  34. Hi everyone! Sorry for the delay, I'm Rebecca, a moderator tonight. Just finished my *first day* at a new job! #critlib
  35. Hi #critlib. I'm an academic librarian in Hawaii. On-call to back up the student at the reference, so may be in and out.
  36. Hi #critlib. I'm Eamon, a reference and instruction librarian at a university in Brooklyn, NY
  37. We’ve got a lot to cover, so keep those introductions coming while we move on to the first #critlib question, coming from @modbrarian.
  38. Q1: How is the student loan crisis affecting you, your library, and/or your campus? #critlib
  39. Well my answer to Q1 of #critlib depresses/discourages the hell out of me, so I'm going to take all the joy from that Cubbies grand slam.
  40. Howdy #critlib. I'm a metadata intern and current LIS grad student in MA
  41. Hello! Recent MLS grad from Maryland, currently interning at NPR. I have loans from grad school only, but it's quite enough. #critlib
  42. MLS student @iusoic graduating in the Spring with student loans #critlib
  43. Hi, #critlib! I'm coming at you from #chs2016. Academic librarian (Houston-based) focused on collections.
  44. Q1. I dropped 1class due to bereavement last year, & dropped below the FAFSA min credits. They will now only loan me $700 per qtr #critlib
  45. Hi Crtlibbers. T Dockray Pratt LIS student. Cubs up by 7 #critlib
  46. A1 Personally, obviously the aforementioned Mt. Debt. Also we have lots of first-gen students at MPOW, and I feel for them too. #critlib
  47. A1. Total current balance of my loans from undergrad & grad: $82,535.18. Curtails my job options for sure... #critlib
  48. Hello! Current MLIS student with loans for grad school and undergrad (because why not both?) #critlib
  49. A1. Personally: Grateful for student loans opening door for second career, and for income based repayment. #critlib
  50. Hello #critlib I'm Denisse, copy cataloger in an academic lib but also an online MLIS student. Will mostly lurk and retweet
  51. @violetbfox Ouch- that's a lot! How does that inform your career choices? #critlib
  52. A1: $15k+ in loans. will be at least 16 more years till my loans are paid off. #critlib
  53. A1, personally I just now expect 2 pay several hundred dollars a month on the same thing 4 the next 30 yrs (not a mortgage). #critlib
  54. A1: I have loans, so it directly affects me. It's currently a struggle to find work that will pay enough to help paying that off. #critlib
  55. A1: in Wisconsin 5 of the past 6 state budgets have cut funding to UW System. We've made up for it by raising tuition mostly. #critlib
  56. A1: In my practice, I try to be mindful to not call lib resources "free" - instead, say "included with your tuition" #critlib
  57. hi i am kelly and i am normally an archivist but right now i am a SALTY AF cleveland baseball supporter #critlib
  58. @beccakatharine Praying that public service loan forgiveness program will be around in 7 years. Have to stay eligible for that. #critlib
  59. A1: Affects grad students so much - esp considering most internships are UNPAID & pretty much mandatory #critlib
  60. Pratt is being affected by changes in programming and teaching. Is cost a cause?#critlib
  61. I second @lisahubbell the public service loan forgiveness program is saving my ass!! #critlib
  62. Q1 (A1?) Student loans affect my & coworkers' morale (esp. lack of clarity on loans in general & public service forgiveness) #critlib
  63. A1: I work with grad students, mostly older. Many are in same boat as me, possibly reaching retirement before loans time out. #critlib
  64. & I don't know what 2 say 2 students nemore, esp when they're thinking grad school. #critlib .
  65. Q1: Me: figuring out PSLF & giving up a year+ of eligible payments after getting married to lower pymnts by filing joint tax rtrns #critlib
  66. A1 Effects sometimes hard to see--society individualizes debt & frames it as one person's choices, making it harder to discuss #critlib
  67. Hi 🤗 instruction/outreach librarian in Kansas. Semi participating semi lurking as I have a late night work event! #critlib
  68. A1 (cont): I think calling our resources/services "free" invisibilizes the huge sacrifice most students make to pay for school #critlib
  69. In Colorado, the state has continued to cut support for public higher ed. Nearly all services are financed by tuition (i.e. debt). #critlib
  70. A1 i only have $20k in debt (woo yeah being poor pays off for once) but i am extremely underpaid and it is a Struggle #critlib
  71. Students talk about finances & costs of college in general. I think like I did they are not thinking about the impact of loans yet. #critlib
  72. #critlib Honestly I think of the public service loan forgiveness as a myth...heard so many horror stories it's hard to have faith in it
  73. A1. Teen offspring transferring from private to public ed, partly not to rack up so many loans. #critlib
  74. Q1 my campus: probably in more ways than I know, but one BIG issue is Regent election-candidates w/diff stances on tuition/funds #critlib
  75. also i do not work in the public sector so loan forgiveness = not an option #critlib
  76. @tangerinerinds I'm super salty that I have to PAY for a mandatory internship to graduate. Wondering how long I can live on ramen #critlib
  77. I know people who won't go to school because of loans. I know people who won't get married because of student debt #critlib
  78. Q2. It would be amazing if libraries offered professional dev. or education funds. Would be great to put toward loans in 1st job. #critlib
  79. Hi #critlib, I'm Maggie. I'm a community college instruction librarian in northwest GA.
  80. A1. It's hard for students to understand debt implications, but when there aren't many options w/o college degree, what "choice" #critlib
  81. @tangerinerinds THIS #critlib I'm so tired of paying $$ for school credit for an unpaid internship
  82. A1 and like I said...7.5 damn percent less state support. Grrr #critlib
  83. A1) the obvious "I'm in a lot of student debt." My university has a first gen population of 50% and I often hear students #critlib 1/
  84. A1 The impacts of student loans & debt are material and spiritual, & disproportionately impacting students of color and first-gen #critlib
  85. @beccakatharine true: I tend to bring up in classes how students' tuition money is put to work at the library - they like that #critlib
  86. @thelizbrarian we had to fight to get it down to like a 12% cut last budget. #critlib
  87. A1. Cannot consider marriage because it would make both of us liable for my loans and each of our children's tuition. #critlib
  88. @ashleydfarley - Yes! In my experience it has not been easy to get funding, including for conferences I'm presenting at. #critlib
  89. A1: I have 170k (not a typo) in loans from undergrad and grad and it's severely limited my career and life choices #critlib
  90. Unpaid mandatory internships are the cash cow of academia (tuition dollars) AND likely against labor laws #critlib  https://twitter.com/beccakatharine/status/793622332627623936 
  91. MPOW is one of the more affordable public unis, but we still have a lot of students working full-time, etc + tuition is going up #critlib
  92. A1: I'll graduate with 70k in loans, but it was a necessary evil to pursue a career I would like. #critlib
  93. @CharissaAPowell Do those students seem to have an "oh well" attitude - like loans are just part of the experience? #critlib
  94. A1: I question how much we in the library make this connection to the student loan debt. We fought for resources, but self-serving. #critlib
  95. also, I wouldn't have been able 2 undergrad if it was as is now & w/o schlshp. some parents rn't comfortable filing out the fafsa #critlib
  96. State funding for tuition has dropped 21 percent over 30 years. Tuition costs show the rise. #critlib
  97. On to Q2: What programming/resources are libraries providing to address the student loan crisis? What else could we be doing? #critlib
  98. @EamonTewell Yup even tho I live under a mountain of debt the diversity of my coworkers is limited by ability to make same choices #critlib
  99. A1 many FY students I speak to equate "college" w/"ability to get job" and see debt as inevitable ☹️ #critlib
  100. What realistic advice and breakdown of FAFSA and loans do freshman or potential students get? #critlib
  101. A1: I received tuition waivers from my univ staff job, and got my MLIS debt free 7 yrs ago. Those waivers have since been ended. #critlib
  102. @Badgersssss so true! though I wish 'do what you love' didn't mean compromise on everything else r/t money.. #critlib
  103. sorry #critlib i forgot to introduce myself AND use the hashtag. I'm a librarian in a university in Ottawa, Ontario. Glad to catch you!
  104. @EamonTewell yeah I was a 1st-gen student from a family with no financial literacy and got hosed by a predatory state loan program #critlib
  105. @maraebrarian Can/should libraries do anything for making FAFSA more intelligible? (Q2 adjacent) #critlib
  106. @Mandapizzollo a great point - I had to work a bit to get info from my parents for FAFSA and had friends who had more trouble #critlib
  107. @modbrarian Say more. I think we're aware of ways to help save students money on textbooks. Are you getting at something else? #critlib
  108. This. #Critlib many POC I know don't want to take the risk of getting into debt when we earn so little as paraprofessionals.  https://twitter.com/maraebrarian/status/793622397001666566 
  109. Q2: What programming/resources are libraries providing to address the student loan crisis? What else could we be doing? #critlib
  110. @maraebrarian Students should get entrance counseling (required by DOE) before taking Fed loans, though quality varies #critlib
  111. A2 financial literacy is directly tied to info literacy - as academic libs we need to partner with our colleagues in k12/public #critlib
  112. @modbrarian Absolutely a privilege that has since been ended. I got in just under the wire. #critlib
  113. A2 man i don't even know. unless libraries are like giving me cold cash i dunno what they're gonna do programming-wise #critlib
  114. @beccakatharine @maraebrarian Great idea. I can just see the FAFSA LibGuide, or collaborating w FA office on workshops. #critlib
  115. A1 I have no student loans but stay @ MPOW when I might like to leave, due to 75% tuition break for 2 young sons. Narrows options #critlib
  116. I know @ least pub. lib. have resources abt. scholarships & FAFSA (I'm sure academic lib. do too). 1/2 #critlib
  117. @beccakatharine I would love a workshop, at least. As a 1st-gen student and an immigrant, the whole system confuses me - & others! #critlib
  118. @rwgammons higher ed being pushed as commodity/credential to get a job is a BIG factor in student debt #critlib
  119. A2: We do a series on library blog called Money Smart Mondays. #critlib
  120. A2: Many libraries have started investigating/implementing OER policies at their univ. to lower $$ burden on Ss #critlib
  121. A2: #OER advocacy & resources which r of utmost import, not jst 4 their own cost value, but bc of the change they rep. in pedagogy #critlib
  122. My MSLIS was largely funded by GA tuition waivers, stipend not enough to cover fees+living expenses, so more still took out loans #critlib  https://twitter.com/kevinseeber/status/793623323527647233 
  123. A2: My academic library lends wifi hotspots for students w/out home internet access. Small but effective assistance. #critlib
  124. A2: also do most programming with campus financial literacy councilor in the library. #critlib
  125. @EamonTewell @rwgammons Yep - sometimes I wonder if we should do more about alternative paths to employment (like vocatl training) #critlib
  126. @beccakatharine Not in what I've heard! They seem to be very aware of the amount they're taking on ☹️ #critlib
  127. A2 #critlib colleagues are participating in this event tomorrow:  http://cfsontario.ca/campaigns/fight-the-fees/  Canadian Federation of Students Fight the Fees day
  128. @kevinseeber tuition reimbursements via working at public libraries or universities are so different everywhere, very strange #critlib
  129. A2: Grad student thankful for professors who do not require textbooks but utilize the variety of databases via the library #critlib
  130. I would have liked more workshops, or @ least more promos for them. Workshops like coding and other helpful work skills. 2/2 #critlib
  131. A2.2: We're also actively consulting w/ faculty to push OER adoption across campus. Tall hill to climb, and slow, but could be huge #critlib
  132. @jayeldee 100%! that individualization is clear as ever in the selling of higher ed as job credential #critlib
  133. Phd student in Md. joining #critlib late but want to echo comments about OERs & library resources. Every bit counts.
  134. reading #critlib q1 answers makes me thankful my grad school was dirt-cheap
  135. I'd like to see more schols for potential libs w marginalized identities that fully fund tuition @ lib schl. #critlib  https://twitter.com/beccakatharine/status/793623178283196416 
  136. A2: subquestion. do other people have a person at their institution who does financial literacy, probably outside of the library? #critlib
  137. @justindlc Yeah, state of FL waived 6 hrs/semester, 3 sems/yr. i.e. I knocked out my 36 hours in two years. Only cost was books. #critlib
  138. #critlib - State funding for tuitions has been reduced 21% over more than 20 years and tuition cost show this.
  139. A2: Can libraries provide resources for students to find and apply to local scholarships and grants? So much money goes unclaimed. #critlib
  140. @oksveta @kevinseeber @maraebrarian & then, what's the comprehension? I know I didn't understand implications of loan debt at 18 #critlib
  141. @EamonTewell @rwgammons Four years of job searching convinced me that my BA in Sociology was useless for more than min wage #critlib
  142. One of my big "culture shock" moments was realizing that quarterly tuition was due at the time of registration. #critlib
  143. A2. As front-facing staff who often see students' struggles, do we have a responsibility to communicate to admin re: debt burden? #critlib
  144. as a first-gen student it is incredibly weird to hear colleagues talk about you in the abstract #critlib
  145. A2 we (academic lib) do a big thing for money smart week / financial lit... but it's general budget & credit stuff not loans #critlib
  146. A2: also, support our public libraries, & 4 state inst. our open 2 the public services! resources shouldn't jst b 4 academics... #critlib
  147. A2 More of what libraries are here to do: promote openness and share resources. Create textbook affordability initiatives, OERs #critlib
  148. Ss here started a textbook library, totally separate from the library. It points at something we *should* be doing, but aren't #critlib
  149. @modbrarian I confuse student resources w lib employee ones sometimes but I think we have a university-wide office. #critlib
  150. A2 financial literacy is #infolit - more resources around budgeting, personal finance, etc #critlib
  151. @oksveta does your library not do textbook reserves? or is this something different #critlib
  152. @maraebrarian 100% agree. Textbooks are so expensive & most fin. aid is going to tuition, room & board now, not school supplies. #critlib
  153. @Mandapizzollo Hear hear! Academ libs. have so much potential for collab w/ public libs, who likely already engage w/ finacl lit. #critlib
  154. A2. I recently heard of a librarian who went around their campus library discreetly putting out pamphlets for food assistance. #critlib
  155. @zoh_zoh Can you say more? is financial lit #infolit? What would those resources be? #critlib
  156. @kevinseeber @justindlc UH has a similar benefit some employees, inc. faculty, but not for every bargaining unit #critlib
  157. @lisahubbell That happened to a friend. They got married soon after her daughter graduated. Couldn't afford to do otherwise! #critlib
  158. I think there's a HUGE need for financial literacy instruction, and FA offices don't have staff/resources to focus on teaching. #critlib
  159. @brinepond @oksveta MANY libraries don't collect textbooks. At last place we couldn't even if wanted to, bc of bkstore contract #critlib
  160. @kevinseeber Or the spaces! #critlib I know we're sick of library as space but we do have the spaces for those workshops.
  161. @thelizbrarian @brinepond @oksveta #critlib we have a system wide Collection Development Policy against buying textbooks.
  162. @Luna_Dee Yes, I see part of mitigation efforts debt for LIS is investigating credit for work experience. I was parapro for 7 yrs. #critlib
  163. ok, time to move on to our 3rd question of the night everyone. #critlib
  164. Q3: Many factors in higher ed have contributed to the present situation. In what ways, if any, are academic libraries implicated? #critlib
  165. A2.2 also opportunities for partnerships w/student affairs, libs have got to work with folx across the aisle to support students #critlib
  166. A2 I like the idea of campus food pantries. Provides needed support, destigmatizes lack of $, draws attn to college affordability #critlib
  167. This is still a thing @ some unis. ALSO I got part reimburs from mpow (Univ of KS) even tho they didn't have a lib schl. #critlib  https://twitter.com/kevinseeber/status/793624953144774657 
  168. Pratt does offer various MLIS scholarship and paid internships to defray cost. #critlib
  169. A3: Big, obvious one is decades of paying whatever cost for databases, no matter how much they increase #critlib
  170. A2: We know students deal with email overload and miss important communication about fin aid apps and grant/scholarship deadlines #critlib
  171. I'm gonna be a devil advocate. A2: is it actually library responsibility to do financial literacy outreach? #critlib
  172. @lisahubbell @rwgammons I was thinking about Strike Debt earlier today but couldn't remember the name! ty! #critlib
  173. The options for tuition waiver library student jobs is quite rare. I was really lucky. This should be the norm not a rare chance. #critlib
  174. @brinepond We do, but usually the textbooks are professors' personal copies & it is not systematic: up to the faculty to request #critlib
  175. @maraebrarian Yes. I try to get multiple copies. Our classes are small, but often more than one student relies on reserves. #critlib
  176. @Gaymerbrarian Good question! Maybe not, but we are teachers/resource builders, etc. so should probably work with folks who are #critlib
  177. I mean yes we want to help Ss as much as we can. But does that job live in the library. #critlib
  178. My personal feelings are "if not us then who" because the "who" is more HE administration, and like, idk which bothers me more #critlib
  179. @maraebrarian need outreach libs 2 get in on that, & figure out a way as community members to know resources/how 2 find & share #critlib
  180. A3 Any money thrown out by academic libraries contributes; big database spending has already been mentioned... #critlib
  181. A3: My biggest concern is the staggering increase in journal subscriptions that correspond with the debt bubble. Debt paid for it. #critlib
  182. yes! for us, some lis student positions had tuition waivers, lots didn't... work or number of hours did not vary much #critlib  https://twitter.com/ashleydfarley/status/793626362305097728 
  183. @jayeldee good point. having lunch taken care of doesn't solve larger problems. no campus discussion abt issues food pantry raises? #critlib
  184. A2 #critlib i forgot, my union gives scholarships, hundreds of them. i email every student who's emailed me in the last year to tell them
  185. I'm gonna lurk more but it is possible to view this as "one more library responsibility with the same time/money budget" #critlib
  186. @violetbfox Yes. Colleagues are often surprised when I mention that students who save money on books spend it on food. #critlib
  187. @Gaymerbrarian Yeah, that's a huge question. My concern is that lots of other offices aren't paying attention, and we are. #critlib
  188. .@EamonTewell we have a food pantry at UD! & a place for free coats & clothing. I think it's a great way to support students. #critlib
  189. A3 accepting ridiculous vendor contract prices for packages that incl unused content; not tracking duplicate subs #critlib
  190. @brinepond @modbrarian @oksveta Fac could put txt on reserve. bookstore thing also bled into #OER stuff...just bad vibes all round #critlib
  191. A3: Another way acad. libs are implicated is having policies against purchasing textbooks (as at my former POW). #critlib
  192. A3 lots of higher level administrators (which is also the issue in HE at large) #critlib
  193. A3: In addition to not negotiating prices & contracts enough, maybe we don't collaborate w/ each other enough? Share resources. #critlib
  194. my subtweet of this is. Librarian training in contract negotiating. Not our area of expertise, but so vital to keep costs down. #critlib  https://twitter.com/rachellux/status/793627136628326405 
  195. @brinepond @modbrarian @thelizbrarian @oksveta same at my institution. I've always encouraged students to organize a textbook co-op #critlib
  196. A3 Could remaining silent about unnecessary campus expenditures also implicate us in academic libraries? #critlib
  197. gotta jet, so jumping- A4: I don't know, but hope it doesn't continue 2 be just go all online & pay online teachers less! #critlib
  198. A3: Speaking from own experiences, acad. libs probably implicated by not working closely enough with community resources (CCs, PLs) #critlib
  199. A2. MA offers LSTA grants for financial literacy; could be used for student support. & @SomervillePL has an income inequality group #critlib
  200. @lisahubbell @violetbfox In college I cashed out my financial-aid funded meal plan so I could buy my books (and then had no food) #critlib
  201. I'm not going #fullgreta, but I question some of the reno/construction projects. We spent a lot of $$$ on stuff Ss don't want/need #critlib
  202. see y'all later when I review the chat, sorry gotta run! holler. #critlib
  203. @maraebrarian Makes me think overall how varied the student experience is. Some really struggle to cover costs while others don't. #critlib
  204. A3 by perpetuating unpaid internships, contingent positions, and staff/faculty divide within our own profession 🙈 #critlib
  205. A3. Given lower contributions by states for ed. funding & the ridiculous amount of $ spent on sports I don't feel bad about libs. #critlib
  206. @brinepond @modbrarian @thelizbrarian @oksveta offer an exchange or short term loan. Some students cant afford all their textbooks. #critlib
  207. YES!! RT @justindlc A3 Could remaining silent about unnecessary campus expenditures also implicate us in academic libraries? #critlib
  208. me rn: is that guy's name really "Coco Crisp"? Really?? #critlib
  209. A3 well if greta van susteren has anything to do with it it's all these palatial libraries we keep building #critlib
  210. A3 (cont). It's like feeling bad about taking a minute-longer shower when agriculture use of water is tremendous. #critlib
  211. A3. Focusing on recruitment and not student retention. #critlib
  212. @modbrarian @kevinseeber I got my MLIS almost free because of tuition reimbursement benefits through my union #critlib
  213. Q1. The risk of student loans makes me hesitate to advocate library school to prospective students. Costs seem harder to justify. #critlib
  214. A3 internship culture in HE today making it nec. for SS to forgoe payed work for exp. #critlib
  215. I guess my issue is that libs where I've worked, we called it "the library's money" not "money we took from students to buy stuff." #critlib
  216. @Gaymerbrarian Not in library job descriptions, but it is sharing ed resources + a basic way to advocate for social justice. #critlib
  217. You heard of this, right? Critics question spending librarian's donation on scoreboard #critlib  http://ihenow.com/2exUSiU 
  218. Likely many of us (also instructional faculty) aren't involved enough in campus advocacy around cost of edu issues. #critlib
  219. A3. could happily talk y'all's ears off about how this is true for public libs too, but that might be outta scope #critlib
  220. @kevinseeber And then when we won't buy their textbooks but we will buy this cool 3D-printer with hazy academic applications...? #critlib
  221. @maggiehm @kevinseeber why lower costs to students when we can buy this cool treadmill desk? #critlib
  222. @amelish @CarElizHay @nclive is fave--cooperatively purchased DBs, goes beyond consortial book purchasing. Pub libs involved too! #critlib
  223. A3. Student jobs that are min wage, no benefits, no tuition waiver #critlib
  224. @modbrarian at prev lib we had to cut 7.5% from coll budget. couldn't believe the waste uncovered when searching for subs to cut #critlib
  225. @thelizbrarian @nclive @bpl @CarElizHay CSU is working on implementing new unified lib mgmt system to search all 23 catalogs @ once #critlib
  226. Alright #critlib, keep it going! We're coming up on Q4, which I know hits close to home for a lot of our colleagues currently in grad school
  227. Q3: not being strong enough advocates on our campuses for students and social justice issues (lots of reasons why that is, too) #critlib
  228. Q4: Speaking of loans, what can libraries, librarians, and grad programs do about reducing the cost of an MLIS? #critlib
  229. There's a lot of showing up to meetings, using what leverage we do have to speak out, etc that doesn't happen for various reasons #critlib  https://twitter.com/oksveta/status/793628548896477184 
  230. Pratt has helped defray tuition costs by offering LIS scholarships and helping to seek paid internships. #critlib
  231. @thelizbrarian I wonder though, do libraries do this out of funding necessity or b/c it's great for Ss and community? #critlib
  232. A3.2 having crucial services (i.e. ref) available during OUR working hours - creating barriers for patrons w/jobs, families, etc #critlib
  233. @oksveta yup. maybe we are exhausted with shared governance or idk what #critlib
  234. THIS is where acad politics makes me so angry. Our position is already so tenuous, even though we're Ss-centered cant rock the boat #critlib  https://twitter.com/beccakatharine/status/793628914027552768 
  235. Hi late to the convo - I'm a librarian at CSU, Chico #critlib
  236. A4 direct action towards making higher education free for all #critlib
  237. A4: Until tuition comes down, create jobs for MLIS Ss with decent living wages. I had to fight, but got $16/hr for GA's in my dept. #critlib
  238. @thelizbrarian right?! & I get why we don't/can't always do it, but I'd like to think of ways to strengthen our position here #critlib
  239. A4 more tuition waivers for grad work; mine was negated because I went to lib schol out of state and had to make up the diff #critlib
  240. @zoh_zoh I think financial literacy promotes idea of higher ed=$. At same time, ignoring the $ is often to detriment of students #critlib
  241. @maraebrarian My point being that financial aid, tuition, student jobs, need to think about equity not equality. #critlib
  242. Ok! A3.1 states including MA require library directors in communities of certain sizes (i.e., 10k+) to get an MLS/MLIS #critlib
  243. @Gaymerbrarian not our responsibility per se but if students need it and we have the resources then no reason not to #critlib
  244. A4: Would never happen, but I'd like to see free credits towards awarded MLIS degrees awarded to parapros with years of experience #critlib
  245. A4: If your uni has an MLIS program, is it too much to have all your student lib workers be people in the MLIS program? #critlib
  246. A4: Create programs where MLIS is shortened for folks who've been working in libraries for a while #critlib
  247. master's programs are oft major revenue generators for universities and there is expectation for programs to bring in tuition $$ #critlib  https://twitter.com/kevinseeber/status/793628991508709376 
  248. @maggiehm Hey, we're thinking alike here! YES! Tuition credits or hell, even COURSE credits. #critlib
  249. A4: Like AP credit (in terms of credits awarded but no tuition charged), but experience-based, and on the grad level #critlib
  250. @EamonTewell Implement! Implement! Ours is going really well thus far. Library is an excellent drop off location too #critlib
  251. @CarElizHay I think UBC does co-op for Canadians. Remember seeing that when looking at schools - maybe still true. #critlib
  252. Could destigmatizing online courses help students to find education there at more reasonable cost?#critlib
  253. A3.2 in MA at least, there are TONS of small towns that compensate absurdly low because their municipal budgets are miniscule #critlib
  254. A4. Financial literacy workshops that aren't condescending. Waive SIG/Prof Membership fees, conference fees 4 presenting students #critlib
  255. A4 advocate for the formation and maintenance of graduate student unions #critlib
  256. @amelish yeah & it is one more (seemingly voluntary) thing on top of too much work. need to reframe as professional responsibility. #critlib
  257. @rwgammons IKR? It's always "experience, experience." But I was entry level once and PRETTY DAMN GOOD #critlib
  258. #critlib Experience for course credit, not paying for the internship req, have libs support grad stud thru flex time/financial&othr support.  https://twitter.com/kevinseeber/status/793628991508709376 
  259. A4: Also, raising hour limits on student jobs. Why could I only work 20 hrs/wk @ school? This is school-wide, though. #critlib
  260. A3.3 we want small libs to consolidate so one professional librarian compensated fairly can be in charge of a given association #critlib
  261. A4. More class waivers for those who can demonstrate direct library experience. #critlib
  262. A4: Provide more campus assistance: housing stipends/info, financial resources... answering my emails about advising would help too #critlib
  263. @oksveta Maybe fewer ppl are motivated by service than I thought, esp on this issue. Don't see how it applies to them, let it slide #critlib
  264. @beccakatharine Yes! Master's programs are university cash cows so this would be a difficult fight #critlib
  265. @beccakatharine I have classmates who use their lib jobs as "independent study" courses for credit - but the credits still cost $$ #critlib
  266. @maggiehm Yeah, that was me. Was FT parapro for several years before/during/after MLIS. Learned much more OTJ than in class. #critlib
  267. @kevinseeber @beccakatharine yeah! if law schools can offer expedited programs, surely lib schools can, too! #critlib
  268. A4: I'd even love to see MLIS programs that would help with finding partner's employment, or childcare expenses #critlib
  269. @modbrarian Yes, we have a Digitization/Preservtn initiative on campus that should be strictly hiring MLIS students but they don’t. #critlib
  270. b/c of this (⬇️), it's hard to imagine meaningful change w/o dramatic reform of what librarian training looks like. #critlib  https://twitter.com/oksveta/status/793629931540361216 
  271. @amelish @oksveta at least where service crosses into TT: may not be viable to put resources into something that isn't a CV line #critlib
  272. @dockray_tracy My online classes actually had added technology fees that made them more expensive at Rutgers! #critlib
  273. @modbrarian I think we need to make these jobs more inviting, though. Not enough MLIS students applied for where I worked. #critlib
  274. A4.1 As hiring managers, we can help fix this. Advertise for entry-level positions. Advocate salary for your staff. Be good people. #critlib
  275. @kevinseeber @maggiehm don't get me started on how much more valuable it was for me to get paid to learn OTJ than to pay for prog #critlib
  276. A3.4 not the reality at present. so we get ppl w/ $50k+ degrees making $20-30k per year, possibly cobbling many jobs together #critlib
  277. @Luna_Dee I didn't attend my first lib conference until summer of 2015. I graduated with my MLIS in 2012. #critlib
  278. @CarElizHay My uni has a hard limit of 25 hrs/week because of ACA. They refuse to pay for health care for hourly workers, which... #critlib
  279. @thelizbrarian @dockray_tracy Personal op: my prog lacks the quality. Not all MLIS programs are created equal. Wish I knew that b4 #critlib
  280. @amelish @oksveta I'm not criticizing your point not excusing inaction, just that I hesitate to draw conclusions here bc pressures #critlib
  281. @rwgammons and don't just *advertise* for entry-level, *only hire* entry-level for those positions #critlib
  282. A4. Part-time workers, what are your hourly caps? Mine are 19, and 19.5, because benefits are mandatory at 20. #critlib
  283. A4.3 Give MLIS autonomy and ownership over projects. Treat them like professionals. Give space to build skills. Pay it forward. #critlib
  284. @Luna_Dee We technically have "assistance" for conferences, but you have to pay first and can only receive $250 reimbursement max. #critlib
  285. @kevinseeber @maggiehm A4 #critlib Agreed. Also/or testing out of classes/credits. Would've easily tested out of intro web dev or w/e it was
  286. A3.5 and these are DIRECTORS we're talking about. so the problem carries down throughout the org chain #critlib
  287. --> better lib school exp for those w the background? focus on theory, ethics, exploratory work, no rehashing the basics you know #critlib  https://twitter.com/maggiehm/status/793629912049606656 
  288. hey #critlib! sorry I missed most of this chat, just got home from guest-speaking at a rez life event. will def be catching up on the convo!
  289. @maraebrarian So true!! Those in financial need can expertly craft a budget & are perfectly frugal already. We need more. #critlib
  290. SADLY, our time is just about up, so two orders of #critlib business. First, would anyone like to volunteer to Storify tonight’s chat?
  291. Impt FYI for #critlib students/recent grads, you can get ALA student rate for up to 5 years, even post-grad
  292. A4. SJSU has strong career center for students and grads, helped a lot w resumes, interview prep, tracking down jobs. #critlib
  293. @EamonTewell we've paired with our campus student learning center to offer more variety in workshops. Finances included. #critlib
  294. @CarElizHay Full time grad student - I work as a GA 15 hr/wk limit & also ironically for a collection agency 25+ hrs/wk #critlib
  295. don't understand how the #critlib discussion rn is anything other than 1) close a bunch of library schools + 2) only fund diverse students
  296. #critlib if this were the "standard" path into the field, I would be supportive. Esp if employee tuition benefits were more common  https://twitter.com/kevinseeber/status/793630865624473600 
  297. @werstgerl @justindlc @kevinseeber She's probably literally more qualified than the person who taught my archives class #critlib
  298. Second, let’s hear your #critpitch! What should #critlib people know about? What events are coming up? What needs some help or awareness?
  299. A4. Really appreciate free unconferences and low-cost local conferences. #critlib
  300. This was enlightening but were our suggestions heard by those that could help lower tuition costs? #critlib
  301. Q2. More libraries - pub & acad - are offering financial literacy programs. Education 🔑 to better decisions on loans & finance. #critlib
  302. @CarElizHay My stipend from my GA is nothing and my other hourly job doesn’t pay enough. #critlib
  303. @amelish @Gaymerbrarian Sure! I also think it is not in admin's interest to create environment where more folks are engaged #critlib
  304. A3.6 so towns pressure ppl to pay top dollar for credentials when they pay the same folks like part-timers to be full-time managers #critlib
  305. @oksveta @Gaymerbrarian ugh yes because that would mean more grit in the gears and then look out. #critlib
  306. @kevinseeber YES. @kellymce advocates for "ideas for advocating at a policy/legislative level". What have we got from this chat?? #critlib
  307. A4 lib I worked for as a grad stu payed me if I wanted to sit in on drop in sessions or staff mtgs so I could get xtra hrs #critlib
  308. #critlib Any Canadian librarians out there, tomorrow is fight the fees day, participate in rallies on your campus!  http://cfsontario.ca/campaigns/fight-the-fees/ 
  309. A4 Easy to say since I've finished an MLS and gotten a job, and hesitant to say, but grad programs could accept fewer students...? #critlib
  310. #critpitch I'll be moderating 12/19 #critlib chat on critical reflection. Propose topics or see future schedule at  http://critlib.org/twitter-chats/ 
  311. @oksveta @thelizbrarian news to me as well! Too late for me! Bummer. Really coulda used that as adjuct. #critlib
  312. @werstgerl @justindlc AND would probably attract more qualified candidates if programs would remember that students gotta eat, too #critlib
  313. Q2. As outreach lib, I'm interested in doing something @MoneySmartWeek - lots of good ideas. #critlib
  314. @justindlc or be more honest about job prospects to potential students. Feel like projections were fairly dishonest. #critlib
  315. @violetbfox @justindlc fewer programs seems more feasible. fewer students = less revenue = program balance sheets no longer viable #critlib
  316. #critpitch Haven't been keeping up with #critlib - any major / hot takes / blog posts / other on info lot with respect to the election?
  317. @catladylib @kellymce @sofiayleung Meant to tell you (& Brian & Tami & all the fab @kulibraries folks how great I thought this was! #critlib
  318. Thanks #critlib and moderators! This community is 💯 grateful for your brilliant brains and supportive discourse 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
  319. @justindlc I agree! But if the schools are making money off the program... #critlib
  320. I'm out, but please contact me if you'd like to volunteer to Storify tonight's chat! #critlib
  321. Thanks #critlib and moderators! This community is grateful for your brilliant brains and supportive discourse
  322. I feel this is what is happening throughout the profession. #critlib MPOW in MIA ($$$$) expects MLIS+yes of exp for less than living wage  https://twitter.com/eminencefont/status/793632805771157505 
  323. I thought about writing a series of blog posts about this election. There's so much to cover it's hard to figure out where to start #critlib
  324. good night #critlib it's always good to know there are good, thoughtful colleagues out there.
  325. thank you so much #critlib great idea by @kevinseeber thanks for allowing @beccakatharine to help moderate this. Thanks all.
  326. @thelizbrarian @justindlc "The greying of the profession!" Can't even count how many times I heard that while getting my MLIS #critlib
  327. Thanks for the chat tonight #critlib! Glad to finally have time to participate. Looking forward to the next one.
  328. To our future colleagues still in library school: hang in there! Student debt can feel super isolating, but you're not alone! #critlib
  329. Many thanks to @modbrarian and @beccakatharine for co-moderating, and thanks to all of YOU for participating! #critlib
  330. Worked in pub. lib. 1st sem. of MLIS. PT, but they wanted FT work and commitment. Hard to balance seperate demands like that #critlib  https://twitter.com/oksveta/status/793632265150410753 
  331. @thelizbrarian very true! but so hard to imagine a uni where master's students aren't exploited to fund rest of campus #critlib
  332. but uh i really thought this #critlib would be more like how to handle student loan debt on like a personal level
  333. Q2. Libs can collab with community orgs for fin.lit. programs. Bus & Econ depts, student clubs, even banks or credit unions. #critlib
  334. sorry I didn't participate more in #critlib - if you're interested I'm blogging Library Assessment Conference at  http://quickaskzoe.com  😚
  335. Thanks to the moderators and all you wonderful people! #critlib
  336. @justindlc Not all library schools are equal. Some are doing a better job than others. Tough choices need to be made somewhere... #critlib
  337. @IreneKorber @thelizbrarian I know - no idea how this narrative of older folks retiring making room for younger makes any sense #critlib
  338. Thank you #critlib moderators and participants! <3 Great conversation!
  339. .@IreneKorber ppl don't know abt PSLF/don't think they qualify. I didn't think I qualified bcs I work for a private u but I do. #critlib
  340. @thelizbrarian @maraebrarian SO TRUE! Been in the field for over 10 yrs b4 starting MLIS & heard this all the time. Still waiting #critlib
  341. @justindlc @thelizbrarian if anything its been positions that werent filled / merged n2 others. Waiting for that retirement wave... #critlib
  342. Q3. What comes to mind is library choices on journal subscription package deals that lock us in to exorbitant costs 💰💰 #critlib
  343. #critlib remember to really nail down PSLF RIGHT AWAY after graduation if you qualify. A bit of red tape involved - research, execute.
  344. @Infinity_Dots people don't know and it's a damn shame. A week I ago told a MSW friend about it and she had no idea. Not publicized #critlib
  345. Hi #Critlib eating pizza and lurking. I went to the most expensive library school, took decades to pay off defaulted loans.
  346. @ashleydfarley @thelizbrarian @maraebrarian FWIW, it is happening, just not at the scale that was promised for the last ten years. #critlib
  347. @brinepond Practically or emotionally? Easy to get caught up in numbers and strategic choices re student loans. #critlib
  348. @modbrarian @Infinity_Dots I should have 4 years left but need to confirm. Lucky to have already been in academia when getting MLIS #critlib
  349. Alright! Now that #critlib is over @violetbfox and I can get back to tweeting about Jake Arrieta. #FlyTheW
  350. #CritLib Looks like you have to be making qualifying payments for 10 yeas in order to be eligible for PSLF 😐 My plan is to pay it off in 10  https://twitter.com/luna_dee/status/793638294668075008 
  351. Q3. Choices for purchasing Open Access materials have real impact beyond the library budget. #critlib
  352. @EamonTewell a food bank appeared on our campus after it was a demand of a recent student protest - so happy we have one now #critlib
  353. @EamonTewell I wasn't adjuncting one semester, no job prospects went to food pantries, worried about seeing my students there #critlib
  354. @violetbfox True. Ways we can help w student loan crisis may come from us as individuals in the voting booth. #critlib
  355. #critlib late to the party but I think conferences can often be places of reproduction rather than real problem solving due 2 elitism. 1/2
  356. #critlib also think access to PD resources for lib peeps needs to be a MUCH bigger discussion to expose inequity, cuz it hurts us all 2/2
  357. Re-watched Titanic while tweeting #critlib 2nite. Sinking ship / student loans combo seems appropriate in retrospect. #spoilers Jack died. https://t.co/6fNiVZxT1N
    Re-watched Titanic while tweeting #critlib 2nite. Sinking ship / student loans combo seems appropriate in retrospect. #spoilers Jack died. pic.twitter.com/6fNiVZxT1N