#critlib on Digital Preservation

chat on digital preservation, 6/6/2016. readings and questions: http://critlib.org/digital-preservation/

  1. Hi everyone! Welcome to today's #critlib on digital preservation! Take a second to introduce yourself (don't forget to use the hashtag)!
  2. My name is Dinah and up until recently, I was a national digital stewardship resident at CUNY TV. Excited to chat today! #critlib
  3. Once we do a round of intro's I'll throw out the first question! #critlib
  4. I'm #critlib-bing from NYC on my last day of staycation. After the chat I get to hang out with @edrabinski and #critgossip.
  5. Hi #critlib I'm Alice, Digital Accessioning Archivist in New Haven
  6. Hi #critlib! I'm Anastasia, coming to you from Philly. I'm getting involved in dig. libs work soon and am lurking this #critlib for self-ed.
  7. Good afternoon, #critlib! I'm an art librarian with an interest in digipres (working on a project to look at issues of pres w/ webcomics)
  8. Whoa, #critlib, I'm sitting at the Rosetta Users Group meeting at NYU right now! So much digital preservation!
  9. Hi #critlib Ellen, Academic Sp. Coll. Lib and Archivist, NYC. Mixed feelings if digital preservation is my job.
  10. Hey #critlib I have the day off work, but better believe I am tuned in. James, Ref/Inst Lib from wisconsin.
  11. In any case, I'm the systems librarian at a special collections-heavy research library in NYC. #critlib
  12. All about this #critlib discussion today that is being moderated by the incomparable @DinahHandel Ready to talk about digital preservation!
  13. (Will mostly be following today's #critlib chat and taking notes, since I don't have as much practical experience)
  14. Thanks for introducing yourselves! Now, onto the first question! #critlib
  15. Hi #critlib, I'm an academic cataloger in the middle of Minnesota, peeking in as I have time!
  16. Q1 How do you define digital preservation? Does your definition differ from established digital preservation concepts? How & why? #critlib
  17. Hi #critlib, digital archivist / PhD student (well, soon) typing from Ann Arbor.
  18. A1 I see digital preservation as work that is performed by people & machines to make digital objects accessible for the long-term. #critlib
  19. Hey #critlib, I'm a recent archives mls grad interested in digital preservation
  20. Hello #critlib I am Travis. In Columbia, SC. Mosly work with digi-pres and community archives and occasionally work with moving images.
  21. A1 I think of digital preservation as an ongoing process, which isn't all that different from some of the models. #critlib
  22. A1 I see it as work as opposed to policies and standards... even though creating policies and standards is part of that work #critlib
  23. A1 So, "preserving" and "being preserved" rather than just "preserved." I probably cribbed that from somewhere but whatever #critlib
  24. heelloo #critlib, I'm Stacey, and I'm a digital archivist
  25. @amelish yes I agree! It is an ongoing process. But it involves a lot of people and labor that the models sometimes leave out... #critlib
  26. A1 I think of digital preservation as long term access for digital, automated as possible but always relying on human readability #critlib
  27. @DinahHandel I really appreciate this angle. Policies can be just a bunch of bullet points, or a band-aid, without the work. #critlib
  28. A1 Sometimes I wonder if established concepts of digital preservation leave out the actual work involved, and the challenges! #critlib
  29. A1 - for me digital preservation is at the edges of what I understand and perhaps over the cliff of something else I want to learn. #critlib
  30. hi #critlib, I'm Rebecca Fraimow, archivist at WGBH and coordinator of the AAPB NDSR program -- excited to follow today's convo!
  31. @DinahHandel For sure. So uh replace "policies" with "bunches of horrible diagrams" in my other tweet. That mile-high view #critlib
  32. Q2 Are digi-pres concepts inadequate for archives? How can we bridge the gap between recommended best practices & digi-pres labor? #critlib
  33. A1 I see it as an extension of pres. practices that concedes to the reality that purely physical preservation cannot suffice #critlib
  34. A1: My informal digipres definition is based on an X lyric: "This is the game that moves as you play." #critlib
  35. A1: My informal digipres definition is based on an X lyric: "This is the game that moves as you play." #critlib
  36. @DinahHandel Also, cringe at "it's a process" -- still getting warmed up here :P #critlib
  37. A1: Application of methods of preservation, conservation, & accessibility of born-digital or digitized analog formats. #critlib
  38. Hi @DinahHandela & #critlib! I'm Julia. I'm the Digital Assets Manager/Specialist at AFC at Library of Congress.
  39. A2 I find a lot of shortcomings, especially with regards to OAIS, and archives in a production environment... #critlib
  40. Hi fellow #critlib-ers my name is Shira Peltzman and I'm the Digital Archivist at @UCLALSC
  41. A2 Also, digital preservation standards never really seem to engage with financial realities... #critlib
  42. A2: We have to decouple 'best practices' from presumed economic access to digi-pres. Not all archives have $ to do what is 'best' #critlib
  43. Hi #critlib Digital archivist at @mselibrary here... joining late, and will be a bit in & out, but happy to be here.
  44. @staceyerdman yeah, the dif. standards for (ongoing) management of assets change fast. #critlib
  45. A2: the problem I see is when 'best practice' gets conflated with 'only worthwhile practice' #critlib
  46. A2 It can be easy to downplay the gap between best practices and the reality of archival practice. #critlib +
  47. A2 I think about how digital objects might change or go through iterations, and most digital preservation models don't account #critlib
  48. A2 Sometimes the concepts ignore the day to day tasks required for #digipres, the bestpractice are shared but the procedures aren't #critlib
  49. + A2 We could be better at communicating the links without dismissing how the differences are perceived. #critlib
  50. @jy_kim29 agreed! and keeping up with the standards, tools, systems and interoperability of everything can be demanding work. #critlib
  51. @AlicePrael yes! It isn't just about setting up a policy, there is maintenance work that has to happen & that gets left out a lot! #critlib
  52. + which is to say that we could be better teachers of / about / with digital preservation #critlib A2
  53. @trlwagner right! when we should be doing the opposite - lowering barriers to entry, making digipres achievable #critlib
  54. Q3 What sustainability challenges- environmental, financial- does digi-pres present? How can digi-pres be more sustainable? #critlib
  55. A2: Think this question can cut both ways. Are archivists prepared & trained to meet standards imposed by reality of new formats? #critlib
  56. @staceyerdman esp if you have "mature" repo (tons TBs). how to adjust that 2 new standards? (related 2 @DinahHandel #ndsr aip post) #critlib
  57. @rhfraim @dericed best practices re-arranged is Carpets Bisect... just sayin' #critlib
  58. A2 my research found small archives just ignore digipres if don't have dedicated staff - potential for consortia or shared staff. #critlib
  59. A2 which, y'know, we used to have in Canada, in form of archives advisors, but that was a federally-funded program cut by the Cons. #critlib
  60. A3 Big challenge in showing mgmt why investment in digipres (right now!) is a good choice with a limited budget #critlib
  61. A3 I think about environmental sustainability because of the size of some archives... All that digital data has to live somewhere! #critlib
  62. .@DinahHandel I'd flip this q and be tempted to say that archive best practice doesn't necessarily fit digipres. E.g. appraisal #critlib
  63. Q3 we think of digipres as more automated than paper pres; I think it's actually the reverse - way more hands-on than ever before #critlib
  64. THIS ONE IS A DOOZY. I mean, dissertation. A3 #critlib
  65. A2 we've *nominally* re-funded it, but advisors aren't getting dedicated funds, so, not great potential for digipres advisors. #critlib
  66. I have the vague sense that being more resourceful could mean we do better in this department. A3 #critlib
  67. A2:Ive always thought that some sort of Worst Practices Exchange might be a great resource: policies and practices that failed, etc.#critlib
  68. So, opting for small-scale solutions where it makes sense rather than focusing entirely on massive networks for digpres A3 #critlib
  69. A2 it's a losing game to retrain 30-yr career archivists on digipres to deal with 1% of new accessions. we need collaborations. #critlib
  70. A3 You have to pay for hard drives and server space, and that takes a ton of money and also energy! #critlib
  71. emphasis on sustainability & staffing is even more key because 'just let it sit until we have $$ again' is wildly non-viable #critlib
  72. A3: I'm finding myself freq conflating sustainability & scalability these days. What works with little, tends to break with lots! #critlib
  73. A3 I wonder about how more distributed digital preservation could work... How could smaller archives share the burden? #critlib
  74. A3 Finding time/staff w/ expertise can be esp. challenging for smaller orgs #critlib
  75. Or maybe thinking about "right-sizing" digital preservation strategies to fit institutions and communities, like w cities #critlib A3
  76. A3 Major challenge is that the electrical grid may not be a permanent condition, what with peak oil looming. #laac16 #critlib
  77. A3: Big factor from personal exp. is having actual tools for digi-pres, have to make $40 slide scanner work regardless of quality #critlib
  78. @DinahHandel biased b/c of where I work & have worked, but I would love to see more community consortiums based around content type #critlib
  79. A2:..not that we do things badly or incorrectly by design, but we all have constraints(financial, tech, administrative, etc). #critlib
  80. @DinahHandel This always seems like a good idea, then the lawyers get involved & you realize how much PII is in e-recs #critlib
  81. + A2: I also regret not wearing my "WORST PRACTICES" shirt today which @kitschywitchy gave me as a MLIS graduation gift #critlib
  82. A3 Are there sustainable storage solutions you can think of? Environmentally conscious data storage? Seems like it could be a thing #critlib
  83. @staceyerdman yeah, more talk about failure is I think something we should all encourage! #critlib
  84. @DinahHandel you'd need to basically fedex all your physical storage media to some "shared staff' in a workspace somewhere. #critlib
  85. Oh right and the other thing is building sustainability into data management plans. Even just getting people to think about it #critlib A3
  86. So apparently #critlib is talking digital preservation…and while I absolutely cannot face that on a Monday, you may want to! #archives
  87. A3 But yes, sustainability also becomes an issue in terms of labor... We really shouldn't have grant funded digi-pres positions... #critlib
  88. A3: sadly, clueless admins can torpedo entire programs by misunderstanding need for cont'd funding. not sure how to prevent this #critlib
  89. @amelish Some things as simple as adding "digital" into a mission statement can mean big things for advocacy down the line #critlib
  90. @DinahHandel and then ingest into a shared platform with proportional hosting costs, etc. complicated but it can be done. #critlib
  91. @rhfraim I definitely try to do this within @digitalPOWRR, but people are so shy/reluctant to share anything perceived as "bad" #critlib
  92. If it’s not physical it requires continued economic stability, which is unlikely. Important records should not be only digital. #critlib
  93. @allanaaaaaaa Can you think of anyone that has done it? It would be cool to share some models of collaborative digital preservation #critlib
  94. @jy_kim29 for sure -- how to tackle backlog/stuff done differently before current practices is a whole huge issue in and of itself! #critlib
  95. Q4 In what ways do you see power, oppression, or social justice intersect with digital preservation? #critlib
  96. @staceyerdman yeah, it's very scary! and many org policies don't encourage it. #fail4lib has had some success with safe space model #critlib
  97. A4 Who has access to what has been preserved, and what gets preserved. #critlib
  98. A4 I think about it in terms of who decides what gets preserved... How those decisions get made.. #critlib
  99. @DinahHandel @allanaaaaaaa @metaarchive has a collaborative membership that allows this model that some are using.#critlib
  100. @DinahHandel but to me it seems like a really obvious model to copy, a digipres advisor driving around, grabbing yr HDDs. :) #critlib
  101. Have to logoff for meeting time now but thanks for the great #critlib See you all later!
  102. A3: Major sustainably issue I face day to day is not so much resource, but organisation culture. Step by step best way forward... #critlib
  103. A3: Major sustainably issue I face day to day is not so much resource, but organisation culture. Step by step best way forward... #critlib
  104. @rhfraim Dig pres requires continued maintenance and staffing; physical pres requires only storage, more sustainable. Print it out. #critlib
  105. @rhfraim I will check that out! I seriously think there are some great studies that could emerge from looking at this critically #critlib
  106. A4 Immediately I think it suffers same challenges to "archive-worthy" ie. normalized, normative histories prioritized in digi-pres. #critlib
  107. A4 Also, again, who has access to the tools, money, technology skill sets, etc. to do digital preservation #critlib
  108. A4: mostly just lurking on #critlib but the way we record rights/intellectual property in e.g. PREMIS does not work in indigenous contexts
  109. a3 - the long email chains I've participated in discussing digital preservation and access/who is responsible are not sustainable #critlib
  110. It's also the antithesis of #critlib. I won't bother reading it. It'd be great is if the men featured spoke up.  https://twitter.com/Willoughbrarian/status/738445092852236288 
  111. @DinahHandel Can be a means to an end for justifying future staff resource. However, my experience of project posts is mixed! #critlib
  112. A4+ : I imagine this as an issue of access to digital copies of things like dash-cam footage. May be preserved, but in hands of few #critlib
  113. Q2 My blue-sky is when Dig Pres synonymous w/Archiving. Capture content/context, manage, represent content/context, provide access #critlib
  114. Want to acknowledge that I’ve never studied much about digital preservation, so my contribution to this #critlib is limited.
  115. A4. #critlib To add to others' comments about control over what gets preserved: questions about "right to be forgotten" & to *remove* info.
  116. A4: the places w/the most resources will be the best preserved, which champions already ingrained systems of power.#critlib
  117. I have another question... What ISN'T digital preservation? How does it differ from digital archival work and DAM? #critlib
  118. A4: and since a lot of underrepresented groups are less resourced, I worry they will be silenced even further #critlib
  119. A4: Power a concern within UK. Digipres efforts concentrated with national orgs - led to concentration of skills/collections/access #critlib
  120. @DinahHandel DAM doesn't NECESSARILY require longterm accountability. Much DAM work = preservation (mgmt policy, docs, description) #critlib
  121. @staceyerdman yeah, & because of nature of digital, much less likely to even have the possibility of recovery of these docs later #critlib
  122. @DinahHandel For example, major concern in dig pres is format obsolescence, medium degradation. #critlib
  123. A4 Could go back to best practices - how much are these unquestioned narrative? Who was included in their creation? #critlib
  124. @DinahHandel same w/overlap b/t KM, InfoSci, CS, traditional conservation, traditional archiving. Dig Pres made from other fields #critlib
  125. Digital preservation isn't really about description & doesn't emphasize access enough! See @shirapeltzman:  http://qub.me/9xeXLe  #critlib
  126. @chiuchiutrain Sure, like pics or correspondence donated by someone else, or big data that you don't know about... #critlib
  127. @k_grons @DinahHandel word! i am continually asked why copies need to exist in a preservation environment as well as the DAMS #critlib
  128. Q5 What are your hopes for the field of digital preservation going forward? #critlib
  129. Q5 is supposed to be fun, a chance to imagine the digi-pres world you want to work in... #critlib
  130. @chiuchiutrain But also does one have the right to remove negative info? Or to change one's mind? If it's even possible. #critlib
  131. @jy_kim29 I'll try! Digipres one small area of expertise within the org. Staff may not be aware/clear on what they need to do... #critlib
  132. @Bibliocracy Yes, I agree, that software is for access not preservation! #critlib
  133. A5 I'd like to see more digital preservation work and software open source- created and done in the open with community feedback! #critlib
  134. A5 I’d like to see dig pres acknowledge that “digital" is inherently unsustainable given uncertainty of infrastructures. #critlib
  135. @jy_kim29 ...Constant advocacy effort required. Progress takes time, but as long as you make it in the right direction! Any help? #critlib
  136. A5 I'd love to see more shared workflows and technology infrastructure reports- show how you build digital preservation program? #critlib
  137. A5: A growing prominence at archiving confs. and is treated not as offshoot of archival work, but as key element of preservation #critlib
  138. @rorylitwin 'print it out' is an option for a pretty limited number of stuff, though! can't 'print' video, software, websites... #critlib
  139. @rorylitwin 'print it out' is an option for a pretty limited number of stuff, though! can't 'print' video, software, websites... #critlib
  140. @C_Fryer and so the +onus on sharing knwldge, expertise, and this as org. values within large bureaucracies? got it.#critlib
  141. A5+: Emphasis on the efficacy of DIY digi-pres. So much so that it is taught in LIS degrees. #critlib
  142. A5 I'd like to see more funding for digital preservation work within libs+archives! No more grant funded digital preservationists #critlib
  143. I do digitization by use (patron request) and digital access as appropriate. everything doesn't need be digital to be accessible #critlib
  144. @DinahHandel agree, more models like @bitconsortium whereby open source software can find ongoing support & community of practice #critlib
  145. @trlwagner DIY pres is an oxymoron when you yourself only have a lifespan of 80 years or so. #critlib
  146. A5 Growth of programs like @digitalPOWRR and more emphasis on getting whatever you can done instead of being perfect #critlib
  147. A5 More simple tools so the public can have the control and agency to do personal digital archiving better #critlib
  148. @DinahHandel I hope 'digital preservation' can be just an arbitrary subset of 'preservation' & not treated as a weird other thing. #critlib
  149. the first digital project I was involved in (1992) is on a disc that can't be read. Physical access to original is often just fine. #critlib
  150. @dericed @DinahHandel more involvement in standards work beyond the usual digital preservation audience: W3C, IETF, etc. #critlib
  151. @DinahHandel your questions make me think of scholars' use and perception of sites like  http://academia.edu  and ResearchGate #critlib
  152. A5: That we stop seeing digpres as sep field, but part & parcel of our professional responsibility to preserve & advocate for pres #critlib
  153. A5 That preservationists seriously consider rising sea levels, peak oil, etc. Threats to sustainability. #critlib #laac17
  154. A5 more priority given to voices working in different fields, regardless of for-profit/NPO status and/or type of content managed #critlib
  155. My only intelligent thoughts are... look at who ISN'T contributing to conversations around digital preservation #critlib
  156. we're nearing the end of our hour, thanks for hanging out and chatting everyone! I'll make a storify for those that missed out! #critlib
  157. BC when you talk to folks from the missing-institutional-voices, people are doing dig pres, but not in a way they feel proud of #critlib
  158. oh, and at the end of #critlib, there's usually pitches- a project, event, reading etc that you're involved in or excited about!
  159. A5: Also, that my title (dig archivist) disappears and, with it, the suggestion that "normal" archivists don't (have to) do digital #critlib
  160. Critpitch: If you’re interested in sustainability and preservation, our conference next May  http://litwinbooks.com/laac2017colloq.php  #critlib
  161. And I really believe that is bc the 1% of institutions are the ones setting up dig pres best practice... and it shows in our lit #critlib
  162. @C_Fryer @DinahHandelAt In preservation history, was there ever 'electrical preservation' or 'mechanical preservation'? #critlib
  163. #critlib pitch: on 8/8 @tararobertson & I are moderating a chat on digitization ethics. Would love to have #digipres folks participate.
  164. And even big institutions? 98% of them are trying to figure it out in ways that they feel embarrassed to talk about #critlib
  165. A5 I'd like to see more nuanced and/or critical writing about digital preservation- how do standards/best practices affect field #critlib
  166. @eiratansey I wish people would be more willing to share, even if they are embarrassed, because chances are they aren't alone! #critlib
  167. Go look through #critlib on digital preservation - lots of great stuff.
  168. #critlib Excited about this next week at LoC: "Ethics and Challenges of Preserving What’s on the Internet"  https://www.loc.gov/loc/kluge/news/save-web-2016.html?loclr=twklu 
  169. @C_Fryer I'll take that back. I forgot we have 'electronic records mgmt' which doesn't totally overlap w/ 'digital records mgmt'. #critlib
  170. @DinahHandel being willing to share can mean sharing harsh truths about lib admin priorities and $, and ppl understandably are wary #critlib
  171. @eiratansey @DinahHandel I struggle with this exact point, because it can look like shaming or badmouthing when it really is not. #critlib
  172. @dericed @DinahHandel I've never been clear on the difference between "electronic" and "digital" RM tbh. #critlib
  173. I'm lurking #critlib to learn about #digipres, but here's a #critpitch: if you have more ideas to share, pitch an article @libraryleadpipe!
  174. A5: I'd like to see more non-Amazon storage providers in the mix, esp more supercomputing centers #critlib
  175. since someone brought up InterPARES, let's talk about the usefulness of standards to limited-capacity organizations. #critlib
  176. @DinahHandel @eiratansey why my lightning talk at #saa16 is called "The 17 Year Itch" bc that's how long the convo's been at my POE #critlib
  177. while #critlib is winding down patron sir asks for a digital copy of a commercial tape - guy that did that here retired/not replaced
  178. @LNBel if the digital file could be dubbed, its copyrighted by a no longer existing organization & we don't have a media server #critlib
  179. A5: I am hoping for more low-barrier, lower-cost solutions for non-specialists; more true collaboratives; more shared resources. #critlib
  180. A5: I am hoping for more low-barrier, lower-cost solutions for non-specialists; more true collaboratives; more shared resources. #critlib
  181. @LNBel so we bring out the tape recorder and hope the tape survives, the guy records on his iphone and I'll get the file #critlib
  182. @jy_kim29 All of those help! Easier said than done with all those plates spinning. #critlib
  183. @LNBel I'll stash the file somewhere and someday, I'll have the digital infrastructure and obtain rights to make it available. #critlib
  184. @allanaaaaaaa I've been thinking about this too; putting workflows into action seems to be a mystical "next step" for many. #critlib
  185. @allanaaaaaaa I've been thinking about this too; putting workflows into action seems to be a mystical "next step" for many. #critlib
  186. @allanaaaaaaa this is on RADD's radar (@LibSkrat) as well...more instructional stuff would be great. #critlib
  187. #critlib I'm heartened by digpres as tool to transform records to reflect multiple creators and prompt collaboration with communities
  188. @allanaaaaaaa Maybe a Choose Your Own Adventure style guide that pertains to workflow and practice, drawn together by case studies. #critlib
  189. OH WAIT did #critlib get into how digital preservation isn't just for archival collections? textbooks, film, music, so many other needs...
  190. I mean in general collections -- obviously all of those show up sometimes in archives #critlib
  191. Example: say you have huge & popular DVD collection. What preservation strategy is required to maintain discs + playback equipment? #critlib
  192. I feel like this gets at Q4 about representation and whose needs digital preservation serves #critlib
  193. @amelish example: local consortium has rare VHS: local doc. w interviews of dc residents displaced by urban renewal 60yrs ago #critlib
  194. @amelish example: local consortium has rare VHS: local doc. w interviews of dc residents displaced by urban renewal 60yrs ago #critlib
  195. @amelish How to preserve that VHS (given copyright concerns, lack of policy)? It could be unsalvageable in not too distant future #critlib
  196. @amelish How to preserve that VHS (given copyright concerns, lack of policy)? It could be unsalvageable in not too distant future #critlib
  197. @staceyerdman @eiratansey @DinahHandel (don't get it right/make it work).Politics isn't a safe environment so I think we all suffer #critlib
  198. A5: Echo funding. But funding for archives and the heritage sector in general. #Digpres is just part of that. @DinahHandel #critlib
  199. @tararobertson @zinelib since I'm fairly new to #critlib where can I find a calendar of what chats are upcoming?
  200. .@C_Fryer (+1) which is of course easier to tear down as well if those national organisations are also not supported enough! #critlib
  201. @DinahHandel you know if any1 is planning to storify or otherwise synthesize today's #critlib? I'd love to share it with some non-twitterers
  202. Sorry I missed #critlib but ❤️ emphasis I'm seeing that in dig pres one size does NOT fit all, and pretending it does is exclusionary