#critlib 11/02/15: lc classification

storified tweet archive of the 11/02/15 #critlib chat on dismantling white, upper class, cisgender, & colonial LC classification

  1. Introductions
  2. Hey #critlib - it's time for another fantastic chat on LC classification! Roll call - introduce yourself and where you're chatting from.
  3. hey #critlib kyle, northwest indiana, unemployed cataloger type; lurking due to interview later.
  4. Hi #critlib! Academic librarian Charlotte reporting from NYC, whilst eating lunch.
  5. Hi #critlib, I'm Laurel, a systems librarian and original cataloger at an academic library in California.
  6. I'm April, academic lib in NYC, tweeting from an open science meeting in Berkeley. #critlib
  7. Hey #CritLib, I'm Netanel, cataloger out of the Boston area -- he/him/his
  8. Hi #critlib! I'm a cataloger/metadata librarian at a small-ish university in the middle of Minnesota. Thrilled about this topic!
  9. Hi #critlib. Adam, Ref and Inst librarian from Widener U in Chester PA. Limited participation today due to not having done the readings.
  10. Hi #critlib. I'm Nora, Instruction academic librarian from NYC. Hooray for daytime chats.
  11. Hi #critlib! Kevin here. Academic instruction person in Denver. Finding it slightly odd to be chatting during my lunch hour?
  12. Hi #critlib -- Megan, Research & Instruction Librarian in Maryland.
  13. Hi daytime #critlib! Joanna from Baltimore, instruction librarian.
  14. Hello #critlib , Danielle Cataloging Librarian and Student from Pratt Int. from NYC here!
  15. Hello #critlib … I’m tweeting from the desk at @LibJuicePress … Not a cataloger, but interested in these issues. Mostly lurking.
  16. #critlib Hi I'm Wendy, former serials cataloger, Iowa City, academic library
  17. Hey! I'm an Information Assistant @nypl specializing in children and teen services! Also getting my MLS from @PrattInfoSchool #critlib
  18. Hi #critlib, Ian here, academic librarian in nyc excited to learn from #critcatalogers!
  19. @librarythingtim Hi #critlib. I'm the founder of LibraryThing and generally interested in classification theory. Mostly lurking.
  20. #critlib eresources librarian in Houston! Excited for today's topic, though mostly here to observe.
  21. Hi, #critlib! I'm Coral, a librarian and developer in Pittsburgh, PA.
  22. Hi #critlib - I'm Anastasia, lurking from Temple University; currently in reference, soon to rotate to acquisitions, then cataloging.
  23. Hi #critlib ! Cataloger from Michigan, lurking on her lunch hour.
  24. hey #critlib! Turner Masland, Access Services/Resource Sharing professional at Portland State University Library
  25. Hi #critlib. Melissa, nearly done LIS student. Looking forward to the discussion!
  26. Hey #critlib! I'm a systems librarian in NYC. I work on the meta-metadata.
  27. Hey #critlib! I'm one of the library folk at @InterferenceArc and am stoked for this chat...in and out of meetings, so might catch up later!
  28. Hi #critlib! MLIS student here. Hopeful future cataloger. Sandy Berman wanna-be.
  29. Hi #critlib I am a reference/instruction/generalist lurking while I work.
  30. Hi! Ethan from Florida - doing technical services stuff - following along #critlib
  31. I'm Patricia and I do reference/instruction in Savannah #critlib
  32. (btw #critlib I'm Donna acad ref/instruction lib*n in PA lurking bc just got to work& will be doing email triage as I learn from all of you)
  33. Keeping an eye on #critlib; Derrick from DC, ref/instr academic librarian in the midst of office hours. *waves*
  34. Q1: How does LCSH affect the work you do at your institution (or wherever you encounter it!)
  35. Welcome all! As more join us, let's start jumping into Q1: How does LCSH affect the work you do at your institution? #critlib
  36. I know when I catalog anything relating to Native Americans, We instead put it under Indians of North America T_T (relating to Q1) #critlib
  37. A1: I'm a research librarian, so LCSH determines how I find anything in the catalog, teach students, & also do acquisitions #critlib
  38. A1. LCSH is less relevant for users as we've moved to OCLC's Discovery, which currently doesn't really do advanced browsing well. #critlib
  39. @violetbfox ...and as we provide more searchable keywords in records. Those keywords often come directly from item being described. #critlib
  40. A1: we use LCSH in multiple systems (catalog, institutional repository, etc.) but we try to incorporate other vocabs when needed #critlib
  41. A1 it affects my work everyday -- I create orig. records and enhance records -- both using #LCSH #CritLib
  42. A1.2 and that means that the choices we *have* in the vocabulary end up in records disseminated across the world #CritLib
  43. A1: I am currently institutionless. 😉 Subject headings are less important for my current work than name and title authority. #critlib
  44. #critlib A1: I do instruction about how to use LCSH for better browsing with students, talking about and teaching organization of knowledge
  45. A1: I catalog works by living creators. Sometimes they don't like the #LCSH I assign/that exist, like Sexual minorities for queer. #critlib
  46. A1-Though I'm not a cataloger, LCSH (and all metadata) play a big role in my work w/r/t ref & inst. "Search with these words." #critlib
  47. A1: I will be starting a collection eval on how robust our support for scholarship of diversity is. ID the relevant SHs to start? #critlib
  48. A1 I work at a cultural institution that uses SEVERAL vocabs, not just LCSH, because we need them all. It's a hot mess. #critlib
  49. A1 can be very helpful for remote catalog searches. I really miss browsing stacks #critlib
  50. A1. LCSH plays role when teaching students how to search. It's not the only tool used, but it's there so we talk about it. #critlib
  51. a1: subject headings allow me as an unemployed person to browse library holdings off-site for research. #critlib
  52. A1: my relationships with the people whose work I describe is important to me personally & professionally so bad #LCSH is a drag. #critlib
  53. A1.2 Until recently, I used to catalog a lot (for music) which really restricted options since LCSH are used in lieu of genre terms #critlib
  54. A1 We prolly use LCSH the most, though. As systems person, I was recently playing with SH display in Primo, our discovery layer... #critlib
  55. A1: LCSH's obfuscate information unnecessarily. Slow to change or add new. Need to be more intuitive #critlib #mytwocents
  56. A1. #LCSH - the primary vocabulary we use in lib cataloging. I think most users' lib experiences are more affected by #LCC, though. #critlib
  57. A1. Find that subj headings most relevant when full text searches don't work or info on subject too sparse, then handy. #critlib
  58. #critlib A1: discoverability. Both for our own patrons within our collection and for other patrons through interlibrary loan
  59. A1: for my institute it would be hard to transfer material to the new subject headings because of the sheer volume of it 500k+ #critlib
  60. A1. In full text searching world how much do subj headings matter? #critlib
  61. A1: I'm not a cataloger either but it does play a large role for me as a student #critlib
  62. A1: Important for discovery. But in instruction context, feel like LCSH / keyword distinction is challenge for students. #critlib
  63. A1.3 the pickiness/outdatedness of some LCSH makes it v. tough for patrons to find items sometimes. They blame themselves, too #critlib
  64. A1 + because we'd realized the original setup wasn't displaying the hierarchical nature of LCSH at all. Oops! #critlib
  65. A1 As a #scholcomm librn, LCSH shows me how researchers work will b organized/distributed/found (or not). Also shows what's valued. #critlib
  66. @gonesquirrelly A great question that I ask myself often! I'd like to see a comprehensive study of this. Is there one out there? #critlib
  67. A1 love a cute #LCSH, a funny one, an oddball one - but is v. imp. to ne. lose sight of the fact that these terms rep. a sing. view #CritLib
  68. @nora_almeida Definitely! I usually save controlled vocab discussion for consultations or upper div instruction. #critlib
  69. @gonesquirrelly #critlib I find my students often don't have the vocab to adequately full-text search. LCSH help adv students get there.
  70. A1 @gonesquirrelly Some indexes (I think Summon is one) prioritize expert-applied metadata over full-text. #critlib
  71. A1 LCSH less relevant now that we have a keyword-centered discovery layer, but I do still assign in original cataloging. #critlib
  72. A1: there are several studies (including covering dissertation use) proving that controlled LCSH increases circulation/findability #critlib
  73. And outdatedness often = racist/sexist/homophobic terms are used bc. they were "the norm" #critlib
  74. A1 @gonesquirrelly And then, of course, not everything in the catalog is available for full-text search, so it gets weird. #critlib
  75. Isn't collocation in e-world search results grouped by search terms used in conjunction, not assigned subj #critlib  https://twitter.com/jessicalcolbert/status/661260099101573120 
  76. A1 #CritLib -- #LCSH tells us the libs. and them, the patrons -- here's YOU. You are a "sexual minority" not "queer"
  77. @mishiebhat @gonesquirrelly Don't know about specific studies, but using controlled vocab seems to influence relevancy ranking IME. #critlib
  78. .@gonesquirrelly I think it still does! Collation of things under one term that might get several different with natural language. #critlib
  79. ITA with this- controlled vocabularies can bring a lot of joy, as well as having terrible probs. #critlib  https://twitter.com/OpOnions/status/661260110833012737 
  80. A1: there is a less visible aspect of #LCSH--how they boost relevance to a record/results sort. #critlib Systems folks, can you comment?
  81. @LiberryCobbler @gonesquirrelly I tell my students to browse subject headings to give them new keyword vocabulary #critlib
  82. I'm not clear on how LCSH influences our EDS rankings, but would love to hear about this from others. #critlib  https://twitter.com/barnlib/status/661260765622607872 
  83. I personally think learning how to catalog with #LCSH has expanded my vocab, but with lack up term update it can really mess ppl up #critlib
  84. @barnlib Also interested in how genre terms might influence relevance. #critlib
  85. @barnlib Not a systems person, but my work w/ web scale disc mostly found relevancy is a black box. But yeah, LCSH seem to factor? #critlib
  86. A1 @gonesquirrelly Exactly. They use what we give them if the item doesn't have full-text indexed. #critlib
  87. @rowmyboat @gonesquirrelly There have been great articles by A. Taylor/T. Gross about how #LCSH improve results for keyword search. #critlib
  88. And, anyway, how do you full-text search something that's not text? #critlib
  89. A1 I'll never stop giving shout outs to our tech svcs folks because the work they do allows me to do my thing in ref/inst. #critlib
  90. Hi, Pacific NW academic cataloger here. A1-We use LCSH so I perform subject analysis on all records with an eye to enhancing them. #critlib
  91. A1 I think a lot of people forget that we don't have full-text for everything, even post-Google Books. Metadata matters! #CritLib
  92. @kevinseeber @barnlib seriously! Secret algorithms irk me. I want to know what my discovery tool means by 'relevancy' #critlib
  93. A1.1 even if the words I'm LCSH change we still have problems of cross comparing #critlib
  94. A1.2 compare the LCSH for the black panthers vs the kkk and look at the race neutrality of language of the klan vs bp #critlib
  95. A 1.3 It is both the taxonomy language but then the application of the taxonomy to the thing. #critlib
  96. A1: LCSH is limited to one world view (anglo-saxon white male generally); which is why we supplement with additional vocabularies #critlib
  97. LCSH now like my living room couch. No one notices it until it disappears? #critlib and there is other seating!  https://twitter.com/rowmyboat/status/661260704490606592 
  98. Q2. Is there a better alternative to the SACO process of LCSH review to ensure that change happens?
  99. A1: Interesting to see how LCSH affects everyone's work differently! Keeping that in mind...#critlib
  100. Q2. Is there a better alternative to the SACO process of LCSH review to ensure that change happens? #critlib
  101. Q2. SACO = Subject Authority Cooperative Program. In other words, what's a better way to enact a swifter change in terms? #critlib
  102. A2 I sure wish there were a better review process. So far have gotten turned down for every suggested change re: Fat Studies. #critlib
  103. Q2 -- as a non-member (yet?) I find the SACO process obscure and distant. #CritLib
  104. Q2: There has to be a better alternative to SACO process. It should not take years for a subject heading to change #thanksberman #critlib
  105. @OpOnions It does seem like a pretty mysterious process, doesn't it? Answer three riddles, find a golden key...? #critlib
  106. @OpOnions yes! esp. when one is not a member of SACO, you're totally cut out of the process. Which is a LOT of important libraries #critlib
  107. A2 -- it feels distant to the work we do daily -- TERMS DESCEND FROM ON HIGH "yes to this" "nahhhh we feel what we have is suff." #CritLib
  108. @barnlib yes! Lots of <3 to you, Sandy Berman, and many others petitioning for change from SACO #critlib
  109. A2 ppl use volume of collection as excuse to keep horrible SH which makes vocab advancement dang near impossible to fix/update #critlib
  110. A2: I find it difficult to comprehend how a circle of a few institutions gets say in the matter and it isn't a more open process #critlib
  111. Limited use(s) or relevance of LCSH then? Assumption of LCSH as holistically useful breaking down? #critlib  https://twitter.com/web_librarian/status/661261376413900800 
  112. @null Q2. Dare I suggest a distributed, no-final-authority system? Could be messy. But LCSH in the "wild" is pretty wild already. #critlib
  113. Q2 maybe if we get an actual librarian as librarian of congress we can see some improvements?? #critlib #loc #librarianofprogress
  114. A2 I know I say this for everything, but linked data. Allow everyone to add variants, and we can choose which to use. #critlib
  115. A2. (butting in) empower yourselves by learning how LOD + non-trad data can extend/explode trad concept/gated area of 'authorities' #critlib
  116. A2. Grateful for @barnlib's efforts to share/publicize efforts to change LCSH terms, see her website:  http://lowereastsidelibrarian.info/taxonomy/term/139  #critlib
  117. @gonesquirrelly #critlib I see currency issues as teaching moment. To me IL is pulling back the curtain on info creation process. LCSH inc
  118. Think both the large slow and the small fast models have advantage: they push and check each other. #critlib  https://twitter.com/librarythingtim/status/661262168957001728 
  119. A lot like cooperative cataloging, in fact. Let everyone contribute. We have a lot more experts than are SACO members. #critlib
  120. Caveat: I don't work for ProQuest, haven't seen their code. I am repeating what we were told when we asked these q's at MFPOW. #critlib
  121. @slmcdanold This was underscored in the interview w/Tillett - she says LC serves congress members - look who they are, have been! #critlib
  122. A2-Possibly, but regulation produces stability & consistency; rapid change could create difficulties for authorization and control. #critlib
  123. 2 separate issues: LC’s specific choices in SH, general issue of having an authoritative, hierarchical SH system. #critlib
  124. I find links to LCSH terms from other places (e.g. related terms, Wikipedia, FAST) make it easier to find right one for what I seek #critlib
  125. @LiberryCobbler @gonesquirrelly but hard to handle critical analysis of LCSH & knowledge prod & research strategies in a one-shot #critlib
  126. A2. I sometimes wish we could discuss new #LCSH more openly- have physical or virtual fora. #critlib
  127. @ekelistic That's the way NACO is going, encouragingly, but not sure LC would be willing to let go of tight control of LCSH. #critlib
  128. @marxalot But where is the "small fast" model to balance the large slow SACO? #critlib
  129. a2 - has anyone considered the problematic terminology we use? "authority and control" #critlib
  130. a2.1 it's hard to fight for decentralized, democratic institutions and subsequently support the LCSH system. #critlib
  131. Apparently the ppl making Authority Rs make jack squat in pay (takes my super. weeks to get AR. updated) GL with diverse SH #critlib
  132. Don't look to The Institution for swift response: a LOT of disadvantages go with being big and "powerful" #critlib  https://twitter.com/ibeilin/status/661262807770509312 
  133. I'm not saying it's ideal by any means, but it might be interesting to compare & contrast how WP & SACO do subject auth control #critlib
  134. Q2. Don't think crowdsourcing as an end goal would be useful. Maybe as an interim step? #critlib
  135. @marccold Do you think #critlib might be a place to do that? I'm imagining a virtual clearinghouse of change efforts...
  136. Just because LCSH is the best system we have today does not make it the theoretical best system in the universe #critlib
  137. LC doesn't necessarily need our support: use it when it's useful, let it catch up when it isn't. #critlib  https://twitter.com/kshockey04/status/661263467408695296 
  138. A2 Not sure adding *more* ppl to decision-making process is the answer. Maybe diversifying SACO & consulting communities affected. #critlib
  139. @adammizelle @kevinseeber yes, labor of human catalogers may be important component of IL instruction #critlib
  140. I would love to hear from @erinaleach re: LCSH in particular on this since I respect her expertise and POV. #critlib
  141. As an aside #critlib the ALCTS Metadata Interest Group will soon be releasing a CFP for ALA Annual on Diverse + Inclusive Metadata....
  142. "We’re more inclined to react favorably to constructive suggestions than to coercive techniques such as petitions, hostile articles #CritLib
  143. A2: following LT: like how SACO made this 100% wrong decision w/o consulting people who catalog fanzines. #critlib  http://lowereastsidelibrarian.info/lcsh/2009/week35/fanzines 
  144. Lots of places have "in house" manuals etc for specialty collections. Some way of sharing those? #critlib  https://twitter.com/brettdcurrier/status/661263696015007744 
  145. @marccold I was thinking a separate wiki section on #critlib website, actually... *she says, already ridiculously overextended*
  146. Please keep the CFP for Diverse + Inclusive Metadata in mind if you have further thoughts on #critlib discussion today and wish to present!
  147. We'll be posting to lists, sending out CFP very soon! #critlib
  148. .@barnlib Maybe more like different decision making *structure* and more people doing the *work*? #critlib
  149. I feel like ILSs should allow us to make local terminology that hotlinks into the formal LCSH terms. #critlib
  150. A2. This is what I struggle with. We all have our frustrations with the current system, but what do we do differently? #critlib
  151. @barnlib Also: this is 2 issues; SH/access terms for discovery etc *now*, and LCSH reform processes for the *long term* #critlib
  152. @nora_almeida @kevinseeber Patrons are fuzzy about my work already. Lib inst to shout-out the hidden library workers. #critlib
  153. #critlib It's important to remember that LCSH is only ONE set of controlled vocabulary. It's limited. "Literary warrant" is hard to show.
  154. A2 (?): Back to relevance rankings discussion, systems librarians really have no say?!? #SmashProprietaryLibrarySoftware #critlib
  155. #critlib Apply/use other controlled vocabularies liberally. And by "controlled" I mean has an identifier for #linkeddata
  156. @marxalot @barnlib Do they have to be separate things? Isn't the frustration that the 2 aren't dealt with as 1 issue? #critlib
  157. Also very specific to its holdings, which don't have everything (gasp!) and are tailored to its purpose #critlib  https://twitter.com/slmcdanold/status/661264708083851264 
  158. Why was LCSH created in the first place? Do we still need it for that? Have we moved beyond it? #critlib
  159. @ibeilin @gonesquirrelly @marccold I was taught "It's better than Dewey." I think we can all agree: true for many (most?) subjects. #critlib
  160. @gonesquirrelly Wasn't it created by Library of Congress for their collection needs, for the Congress? Not created for our needs #critlib
  161. @barnlib re: relevance rankings, I wonder how a homegrown system like the one UPenn is using works with that... #critlib
  162. I've been in multiple conference Q&As where an LC cataloguer has announced that they appreciate feedback and want to make changes #critlib
  163. Literary warrant (B.T. men. ) can be a crock, I've found #LCSH with a *single* usage in the LC catalog - but they approved THAT one #CritLib
  164. Following up on @cm_harlow's comment on #LOD. It may be time to build smaller/distinct authority files (aka mutual metadata). #critlib
  165. @barnlib Some control but limited: not at the level of seeing the algorithm as a whole/ability to tinker with very specific stuff #critlib
  166. @barnlib In my experience it's been impossible to talk with vendors and get straight answers about relevancy rankings. #critlib
  167. I totally don't care which vocab(s) our catalogers use as long it's 1. correct (MARC indicators/subfields, say) & 2. consistent. #critlib
  168. @chiuchiutrain @barnlib LCSH isn't the only authority source, and oughtn't be. One is institutional, the other existential #critlib
  169. A2. Can't help wondering whether our ideas of "literary warrant" need to change, esp if we are to catalog diff types of resources. #critlib
  170. THIS. PT/RT/BT/NT algorithms DO THIS already. Modifying will take time & money but is so worth it! #critlib  https://twitter.com/web_librarian/status/661264305321582592 
  171. Q3. Should we be localizing efforts at our individual institutions to create a more inclusive SH system? Or is a nation-wide system the only way to go?
  172. Q3. Should we be localizing efforts at our institutions to create a more inclusive SH system? Local thesauruses? #critlib
  173. #critlib Q3 I would argue that this work could also be done among consortia. Maybe more power to enact change is we work together?
  174. A3: local vocabularies keep our resources in our silos. We should focus on building/contributing to existing #linkeddata vocabs #critlib
  175. @violetbfox @barnlib get the impression it's either handwavey or they don't want you to know or both? #critlib
  176. Why not have an open tagging system where patrons come up with alt. SH while catalogers use LCSH SH? #critlib
  177. @FromtheShelves @slmcdanold Also there are loads of proprietary controlled vocabs used by indexing and content providers. #critlib
  178. @ibeilin @gonesquirrelly Will voice the minority view here and say that controlled vocabularies are extraordinarily important now. #critlib
  179. . @barnlib yeah some folks are already doing this, and building relationships btwn LOD authorities/data gives you lots of power. #critlib
  180. @web_librarian reflective of world where newer people expect full text thus to them "crippled" #critlib
  181. @FromtheShelves @slmcdanold They can be less open to influence of non-priviliged communities than LCSH, if not as widely used. #critlib
  182. @deweysnotdead would think many institutions would need to share the work load as catalogers and systems ppl workload already maxed #critlib
  183. A3 We totally should! As long as we do it correctly (MARC indicators & subfields, say) & consistently! #critlib
  184. A3 Localizing efforts is one solution that I am for but shouldn't we look at the larger problem at hand? #critlib
  185. #critlib Q3 also, I wonder if more opportunity for change is created as cataloging activities become more collaborative
  186. A3 I'm also totally down with tags, natural language, user added, or otherwise--but as distinct from SH, because they're different. #critlib
  187. A3 I do NOT think we should localize subject headings unless there's some way to link them together intelligently. #critlib
  188. @kinderone1 I know orbis cascade is exploring collaborative cataloging work loads, to share the burden #critlib
  189. A3 I feel conflicted. I want more user participation, but I want consistency that a folksonomy can't really bring. I want it all! #critlib
  190. Consistency is key. We're in the business of making things findable: that means predictable/learnable #critlib  https://twitter.com/rowmyboat/status/661266293056790528 
  191. A3-Discovery layers often offer the ability to "tag" items; if searchable in the same interface, that functionality is provided. #critlib
  192. Q? Isn't changing LCSH rewriting history to suit current perceptions? #critlib How is that different from past applications of subj headings
  193. @ibeilin Not even when LCSH goes and retroactively changes old headings to new ones? #critlib
  194. @gonesquirrelly Yes. Their view of what is important both for what is cataloged and what to call it #critlib
  195. @gonesquirrelly @rowmyboat More like seeing what worked/didn't, creating a new open consortium system of implementation/change? #critlib
  196. @gonesquirrelly I always wonder what history will reveal as my most appalling ideological commitment. #critlib
  197. @marxalot @ibeilin @gonesquirrelly it's an artifact if we like it or not. We should support documentation of outmoded use at least #critlib
  198. @gonesquirrelly Do you mean we should continue to use terms appropriate for the era of publication, not terms in use today? #critlib
  199. @wendycr_ Both. History is important and should understand where we have been re:construction of knowledge/identity/acceptance #critlib
  200. @ibeilin @gonesquirrelly The purpose of the LCSH isn't historical: it's use. It's a tool, not an artifact (or should be) #critlib
  201. @wendycr_ @gonesquirrelly I feel like we'd need both, right? If I were doing historical research, I'd search period terms. #critlib
  202. @gonesquirrelly If the point is current use, why would they want to keep the outmoded SH in place? #critlib
  203. @FromtheShelves @kevinseeber LCSH was designed for congress & items being kept in LC b/c of copyright. It's inherently biased. #critlib
  204. @FromtheShelves Totally. I'm more on the side of reforming academic discourse, then the SH will follow. #critlib
  205. A lot of LCSH discussion focuses on the headings, but the relationships are also important, & IME often underdeveloped. #critlib
  206. #critlib previous #LCSH terms are kept in the record as "see" references. This can be maintained in #linkeddata environment
  207. A3 And I know that won't fix it all. We have some systemic problems to fix (e.g. "Black history" search brings up white violence). #critlib
  208. OT, but it seems convos often focus on #LCSH, rather than #LCC. Prob b/c class schemes change VERY SLOWLY indeed, for obv reasons. #critlib
  209. @slmcdanold Yes! concern should be how to maximize labor, enhance discoverability, & diversify vocabs. #critlib
  210. Late to #critlib party. I'm at a small institutional lib. that doesn't actually use LC (b/c inaccurate terminology; bias; specialized coll.)
  211. @MelissaA1763 Your institution actually made the decision to not use LCSH? Would love to hear more. Do you guys coop. catalog? #critlib
  212. We use modified Brian Deer. Have (some) mapping to help with cataloguing. #critlib
  213. @gonesquirrelly @ibeilin Take LGBT*. How many poss keywords are there? Will any user search every single one? Collocation is key. #critlib
  214. Controlled vocabs privilege acad discourse, not natural lang. Is there a system we could create that doesn't recog this hierarchy? #critlib
  215. @FromtheShelves Is there a solution to that? I feel that acad catalogs shouldn't be divorced from pub catalogs. #smashtheivorytower #critlib
  216. @FromtheShelves I think yes, but complexity would be sacrificed. Not necessarily a bad thing, especially when used in combinations. #critlib
  217. @OpOnions I heard a museum in texas or somewhere was using tagging systems to tag their art and even let patrons vote on "best" art.#critlib
  218. @shatomica using alt. fields works great but then we found that WorldCat discovery didn't display many of them anymore.... #critlib
  219. @FromtheShelves But if LCSH is primarily used for acad collections, shouldn't SH reflect that language? #critlib
  220. A3 I really wish we had something Open Access but with library control, but then you have the same problems of biases etc #critlib
  221. #critlib Tagging and Controlled vocabs (LCSH, genres, others) are NOT mutually exclusive. You can use both. But the are fundamentally diff.
  222. A3 Do people think that the concept of universal bibliographic control is inherently authoritarian? #critlib
  223. I think using terms appropriate to the era of the material is bull because patrons might not even know old SH Its irrelevant #critlib
  224. TAGS = personal use, not "neutral analysis" of the "aboutness" of an item. Can be misleading. #critlib Hence whey you use BOTH.
  225. @slmcdanold Yeah, you should see some of the tags I use in GoodReads. Not exactly helpful to people-who-aren't-me. :) #critlib
  226. @kevinseeber Don't think LCSH treat all discourses equally. Makes judgment calls. #critlib
  227. @slmcdanold Agreed! I don't think an either / or approach works. Local reinvention still has problem of top-down desc. #critlib
  228. Just wanna throw it out there -- the #systems most of use are totally insufficient to support some of the changes we'd like to see. #critlib
  229. ...and we have even less control over most of our systems that we do over LCSH & most other vocabs. #critlib
  230. @OpOnions @gonesquirrelly Yes, geographic headings have that issue. But I think other terms can/should modernize #critlib
  231. @gonesquirrelly I think this can be noted effectively as a cross reference in a linked authority record, but not stay on ind record #critlib
  232. @OpOnions @wendycr_ True. An equally political decision about recognition and refusal of independent authority of countries. #critlib
  233. @ibeilin @gonesquirrelly The archivist in me thinks it's important to keep a record of the changes, but not keep the outmoded SH #critlib
  234. @mishiebhat @ibeilin @gonesquirrelly I agree. Amnesia is a big obstacle to reckoning with racism and other problems. #critlib
  235. I dont understand why we need to keep outdated/racist/sexist/ just messed up overall SH for history keeping? why bother? #critlib
  236. @web_librarian yes, they shouldn't be erased from the historical record, only from the catalog record #critlib
  237. @ibeilin I'm suggesting historical terms should be in the record for findability, but NOT that they should be the primary access pt #critlib
  238. @web_librarian @gonesquirrelly For a full text search, sure. But subject, I would think date of publication + current term #critlib
  239. @ibeilin LCSH continues as placeholders or markers for larger concepts; or morph to become reflective of scholarly conversations? #critlib
  240. @web_librarian @gonesquirrelly You would search war between the states for a book about the Civil War written in the 19th century? #critlib
  241. @wendycr_ @web_librarian @gonesquirrelly don't y'all mean the war of northern aggression? (joke from a temp southerner) #critlib
  242. @DanjelleJ I wouldn't keep it in the active SH, but include those terms to show how things were described. No amnesia. #critlib
  243. @chiuchiutrain @FromtheShelves And, in many locales (like southcentral Alaska), public & academic catalogs aren't separate at all. #critlib
  244. @wendycr_ @OpOnions Modernize ok but don't throw out the old as is part of our tapestry of understanding #critlib
  245. @ibeilin @web_librarian There needs to be collocation. We don't have that now for countries that have changed names, and it's tough #critlib
  246. @nora_almeida Could UBC be a benign authoritarianism? Should the concept be abandoned? #critlib
  247. #critlib We should be building connections *between* vocabularies (same as, ~ to) etc. Not "reinventing" them. #linkeddata #SemanticWeb
  248. @rowmyboat question becomes how do we agitate for change from vendors who are slow to move? #critlib
  249. @ekelistic We do do copy cataloguing but adjust; have LCC maps, look at other lib's doing similar; but also a learning curve for me #critlib
  250. @wendycr_ IMO, some dated terms could describe notable eras for a topic, but they should either be aliases or NTs to current ones. #critlib
  251. (eg. "Information superhighway" captures 1990s what-will-the-Net be discussion, but shouldn't be so high in current LCSH hierarchy) #critlib
  252. Don't disagree: SH should be a living object, but I don't mean to erase past terms, just deprecate #critlib  https://twitter.com/gonesquirrelly/status/661270803036708864 
  253. Should database subjects be the same as LCSH? It's always hard giving instruction without consistency! #critlib
  254. @ekelistic (should add that doing LCSH from scratch would also be a learning curve - Brian Deer actually makes more sense to me) #critlib
  255. @ekelistic (and Deer makes waaayyy more sense for our library patrons) #critlib
  256. @chiuchiutrain Don't know. Guess my point: Impossible to change the language of acad disciplines. #critlib
  257. #critlib Here you can find (halfway down page) LC's response to the proposal to change "Illegal aliens"  http://www.loc.gov/aba/pcc/saco/cpsoed/psd-141215.html 
  258. Q4. How can we draw non-catalogers into the fold to help create change?
  259. I could continue this for hours if I could! But time for Q4: How can we draw non-catalogers into the fold to help create change? #critlib
  260. A4: I think getting reference librarians' suggestions on what sort of search terms are used/etc. would be helpful #critlib
  261. A4: but I generally think reference and cataloging should influence each other more #critlib
  262. A4: no type of librarian works in a vacuum. No librarian is an island. #critlib
  263. A4: Like in all organizing. Identify the support and give them a specific ask for a specific task. #critlib
  264. A4: Explain to non cataloging professionals the importance of this issue and getting input from librarians in the field #critlib
  265. I often ask our ref staff if changes I'm considering to display.search make sense for them & patrons. #critlib  https://twitter.com/JessicaLColbert/status/661269281418706944 
  266. A4- We have a good number of non-catalogers in this chat! I'll leave it to catalogers to direct this, but remember you have allies. #critlib
  267. A4: I mostly wish there was an easier/more transparent way to edit these headings, & for non-catalogers to know they can, too #critlib
  268. Totally forgot talk about A4 -- I would want to hear from the communities for their terms #CritLib
  269. A4-Change is inherent; change for better, what's "better"? Distrust authority & control? Why accept it from non-cataloger experts? #critlib
  270. #critlib pitch: keep using #critcat for critical cataloging and classification issues! #critcats with an "s" is for your critlib cat pics.
  271. My librarian heart is SO WARM! People are getting FEISTY about metadata! #critlib
  272. @JessicaLColbert and definitely starts with building good relationships across depts. territorital behavior is a huge obstacle! #critlib
  273. Y'all, this was a great chat and I feel like we BARELY skimmed the surface! Can't wait for more discussions to follow #critlib