#critlib 11/02/15: lc classification
storified tweet archive of the 11/02/15 #critlib chat on dismantling white, upper class, cisgender, & colonial LC classification
- Introductions
Hey who wrote something relevant to this week's #CritLib over the weekend? Why, it was me! https://inevermetadataididntlike.wordpress.com/2015/10/31/antisemitism-in-the-library-of-congress-classification-scheme/ …
Hello #critlib … I’m tweeting from the desk at @LibJuicePress … Not a cataloger, but interested in these issues. Mostly lurking.
Hi #critlib, Ian here, academic librarian in nyc excited to learn from #critcatalogers!
@librarythingtim Hi #critlib. I'm the founder of LibraryThing and generally interested in classification theory. Mostly lurking.
Hey #critlib! I'm one of the library folk at @InterferenceArc and am stoked for this chat...in and out of meetings, so might catch up later!
Yes! Hi, Sara, research librarian from CT #critlib https://twitter.com/PoorCharlotte/status/661258434738847744 …- Q1: How does LCSH affect the work you do at your institution (or wherever you encounter it!)
@mishiebhat LCSH = Library of Congress Subject Headings #critlib
@violetbfox ...and as we provide more searchable keywords in records. Those keywords often come directly from item being described. #critlib
A1: LCSH's obfuscate information unnecessarily. Slow to change or add new. Need to be more intuitive #critlib #mytwocents
A1 As a #scholcomm librn, LCSH shows me how researchers work will b organized/distributed/found (or not). Also shows what's valued. #critlib- @gonesquirrelly A great question that I ask myself often! I'd like to see a comprehensive study of this. Is there one out there? #critlib
@nora_almeida Definitely! I usually save controlled vocab discussion for consultations or upper div instruction. #critlib
@gonesquirrelly #critlib I find my students often don't have the vocab to adequately full-text search. LCSH help adv students get there.
A1 @gonesquirrelly Some indexes (I think Summon is one) prioritize expert-applied metadata over full-text. #critlib- A1 @gonesquirrelly And then, of course, not everything in the catalog is available for full-text search, so it gets weird. #critlib
@violetbfox @gonesquirrelly Agree that LCSH are less important but we still need em for books. #critlib
Isn't collocation in e-world search results grouped by search terms used in conjunction, not assigned subj #critlib https://twitter.com/jessicalcolbert/status/661260099101573120 …- @mishiebhat @gonesquirrelly Don't know about specific studies, but using controlled vocab seems to influence relevancy ranking IME. #critlib
.@gonesquirrelly I think it still does! Collation of things under one term that might get several different with natural language. #critlib
ITA with this- controlled vocabularies can bring a lot of joy, as well as having terrible probs. #critlib https://twitter.com/OpOnions/status/661260110833012737 …
@LiberryCobbler @gonesquirrelly I tell my students to browse subject headings to give them new keyword vocabulary #critlib- So subj headings used for "crippled" texts, DVDs etc...things not fully searchable yet? #critlib https://twitter.com/web_librarian/status/661260432439705600 …
I'm not clear on how LCSH influences our EDS rankings, but would love to hear about this from others. #critlib https://twitter.com/barnlib/status/661260765622607872 …- @gonesquirrelly Both. Lots of our ebooks aren't full text searchable. #critlib
- A1 @gonesquirrelly Exactly. They use what we give them if the item doesn't have full-text indexed. #critlib
- @rowmyboat @gonesquirrelly There have been great articles by A. Taylor/T. Gross about how #LCSH improve results for keyword search. #critlib
- But currency of headings is a described issue...so use for IL purposes? #critlib https://twitter.com/liberrycobbler/status/661261033319866372 …
- A1 @gonesquirrelly Summon uses LCSH for subject facets. #critlib
- LCSH now like my living room couch. No one notices it until it disappears? #critlib and there is other seating! https://twitter.com/rowmyboat/status/661260704490606592 …
- Q2. Is there a better alternative to the SACO process of LCSH review to ensure that change happens?
- @PoorCharlotte and the proposal form is awful! #CritLib
Q2: There has to be a better alternative to SACO process. It should not take years for a subject heading to change #thanksberman #critlib- Limited use(s) or relevance of LCSH then? Assumption of LCSH as holistically useful breaking down? #critlib https://twitter.com/web_librarian/status/661261376413900800 …
- @gonesquirrelly #critlib I see currency issues as teaching moment. To me IL is pulling back the curtain on info creation process. LCSH inc
Think both the large slow and the small fast models have advantage: they push and check each other. #critlib https://twitter.com/librarythingtim/status/661262168957001728 …
And full text doesn't always contain useful descriptive terms. +1 #MetadataMatters #critlib https://twitter.com/web_librarian/status/661261579548258304 …- @slmcdanold This was underscored in the interview w/Tillett - she says LC serves congress members - look who they are, have been! #critlib
- As long as you can fund the backend operators, this times a million. #critlib https://twitter.com/ekelistic/status/661262383357104128 …
- @LiberryCobbler @gonesquirrelly but hard to handle critical analysis of LCSH & knowledge prod & research strategies in a one-shot #critlib
- @ekelistic That's the way NACO is going, encouragingly, but not sure LC would be willing to let go of tight control of LCSH. #critlib
- Don't look to The Institution for swift response: a LOT of disadvantages go with being big and "powerful" #critlib https://twitter.com/ibeilin/status/661262807770509312 …
- Now, see that's what we need to have! Ditch the view of LC as the *only* source #critlib https://twitter.com/kinderone1/status/661263116265758720 …
- LC doesn't necessarily need our support: use it when it's useful, let it catch up when it isn't. #critlib https://twitter.com/kshockey04/status/661263467408695296 …
- There are already so many other vocabs out there! LCSH isn't the end-all, be-all. #critlib https://twitter.com/marxalot/status/661263593317359616 …
- @adammizelle @kevinseeber yes, labor of human catalogers may be important component of IL instruction #critlib
I would love to hear from @erinaleach re: LCSH in particular on this since I respect her expertise and POV. #critlib- A2: following LT: like how SACO made this 100% wrong decision w/o consulting people who catalog fanzines. #critlib http://lowereastsidelibrarian.info/lcsh/2009/week35/fanzines …
- Lots of places have "in house" manuals etc for specialty collections. Some way of sharing those? #critlib https://twitter.com/brettdcurrier/status/661263696015007744 …
- A2. Maybe from hierarchical to this, though not read yet: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/263737540 … #critlib
- Yes. This is work, living people are making these things findable, not by magic! #critlib https://twitter.com/nora_almeida/status/661263853536325633 …
@nora_almeida @kevinseeber Patrons are fuzzy about my work already. Lib inst to shout-out the hidden library workers. #critlib- A2 (?): Back to relevance rankings discussion, systems librarians really have no say?!? #SmashProprietaryLibrarySoftware #critlib
#critlib Apply/use other controlled vocabularies liberally. And by "controlled" I mean has an identifier for #linkeddata- Also very specific to its holdings, which don't have everything (gasp!) and are tailored to its purpose #critlib https://twitter.com/slmcdanold/status/661264708083851264 …
@gonesquirrelly Wasn't it created by Library of Congress for their collection needs, for the Congress? Not created for our needs #critlib- @gonesquirrelly And created around limitations of a card catalog #critlib
- THIS. PT/RT/BT/NT algorithms DO THIS already. Modifying will take time & money but is so worth it! #critlib https://twitter.com/web_librarian/status/661264305321582592 …
- Q3. Should we be localizing efforts at our individual institutions to create a more inclusive SH system? Or is a nation-wide system the only way to go?
- A3: local vocabularies keep our resources in our silos. We should focus on building/contributing to existing #linkeddata vocabs #critlib
- A3- As far as reforming national system of subject headings, perhaps #JebCanFixIt? #critlib #humor #topicalhumor #politicalhumor
@FromtheShelves @slmcdanold Also there are loads of proprietary controlled vocabs used by indexing and content providers. #critlib- @web_librarian reflective of world where newer people expect full text thus to them "crippled" #critlib
- @FromtheShelves @slmcdanold They can be less open to influence of non-priviliged communities than LCSH, if not as widely used. #critlib
- YES. Controlled vocab = IDENTIFIER in #semanticweb which builds #linkedata and increased discoverability #critlib https://twitter.com/marccold/status/661265986499297283 …
- @deweysnotdead would think many institutions would need to share the work load as catalogers and systems ppl workload already maxed #critlib
- @kevinseeber Only if the results are close. #critlib
@kinderone1 I know orbis cascade is exploring collaborative cataloging work loads, to share the burden #critlib- A3 Ontologies and vocabularies are what we need to build, OUTSIDE of library catalogs #critlib http://www.w3.org/standards/semanticweb/ontology …
- Consistency is key. We're in the business of making things findable: that means predictable/learnable #critlib https://twitter.com/rowmyboat/status/661266293056790528 …
- @gonesquirrelly it's not rewriting history, but retiring it #critlib
- @gonesquirrelly Yes. Their view of what is important both for what is cataloged and what to call it #critlib
- @gonesquirrelly @rowmyboat More like seeing what worked/didn't, creating a new open consortium system of implementation/change? #critlib
@gonesquirrelly I always wonder what history will reveal as my most appalling ideological commitment. #critlib- @gonesquirrelly Do you mean we should continue to use terms appropriate for the era of publication, not terms in use today? #critlib
@Gaymerbrarian @marxalot @ibeilin @gonesquirrelly it would be documented in the material but no need for outdated SH? #critlib- Sure, as "deprecated terms," but not at the expense of keeping it relevant. #critlib https://twitter.com/Gaymerbrarian/status/661268463449698304 …
- @gonesquirrelly If the point is current use, why would they want to keep the outmoded SH in place? #critlib
- @FromtheShelves @kevinseeber LCSH was designed for congress & items being kept in LC b/c of copyright. It's inherently biased. #critlib
@ekelistic Unfortunately paywalled, this article has more info: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01639374.2015.1008717 … A # of Indigenous libraries use Brian Deer #critlib- @FromtheShelves Totally. I'm more on the side of reforming academic discourse, then the SH will follow. #critlib
- @slmcdanold Yes! concern should be how to maximize labor, enhance discoverability, & diversify vocabs. #critlib
- @MelissaA1763 Your institution actually made the decision to not use LCSH? Would love to hear more. Do you guys coop. catalog? #critlib
- Bc it's never-ending process. Go ahead & change it again in the future. #critlib https://twitter.com/gonesquirrelly/status/661266795421151232 …
- Allowing tag suggestions, mediated by backend vocab control/linking, WORKS, but means $$$. #critlib https://twitter.com/PoorCharlotte/status/661266687396855812 …
@FromtheShelves Is there a solution to that? I feel that acad catalogs shouldn't be divorced from pub catalogs. #smashtheivorytower #critlib- @FromtheShelves I think yes, but complexity would be sacrificed. Not necessarily a bad thing, especially when used in combinations. #critlib
@shatomica using alt. fields works great but then we found that WorldCat discovery didn't display many of them anymore.... #critlib- @FromtheShelves But if LCSH is primarily used for acad collections, shouldn't SH reflect that language? #critlib
- Not just maintained, but expanded. LOD is *great* for synonym/relationship circles #critlib https://twitter.com/slmcdanold/status/661267772752715776 …
- @slmcdanold Yeah, you should see some of the tags I use in GoodReads. Not exactly helpful to people-who-aren't-me. :) #critlib
- Tis true. We don't have control, only #semanticweb #linkeddata identifiers. :) #critlib https://twitter.com/edrabinski/status/661268670983852032 …
@kevinseeber Don't think LCSH treat all discourses equally. Makes judgment calls. #critlib- @slmcdanold Agreed! I don't think an either / or approach works. Local reinvention still has problem of top-down desc. #critlib
- @gonesquirrelly I think this can be noted effectively as a cross reference in a linked authority record, but not stay on ind record #critlib
- @mishiebhat @ibeilin @gonesquirrelly I agree. Amnesia is a big obstacle to reckoning with racism and other problems. #critlib
- @web_librarian yes, they shouldn't be erased from the historical record, only from the catalog record #critlib
2006 OA paper on indigenous classification schemes: "From Marginalization to Accessibility": http://commons.pacificu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=libfac … #critlib- @web_librarian @gonesquirrelly For a full text search, sure. But subject, I would think date of publication + current term #critlib
- @web_librarian @gonesquirrelly You would search war between the states for a book about the Civil War written in the 19th century? #critlib
- @wendycr_ @web_librarian @gonesquirrelly don't y'all mean the war of northern aggression? (joke from a temp southerner) #critlib
- @DanjelleJ I wouldn't keep it in the active SH, but include those terms to show how things were described. No amnesia. #critlib
- @chiuchiutrain @FromtheShelves And, in many locales (like southcentral Alaska), public & academic catalogs aren't separate at all. #critlib
@nora_almeida Could UBC be a benign authoritarianism? Should the concept be abandoned? #critlib- #critlib We should be building connections *between* vocabularies (same as, ~ to) etc. Not "reinventing" them. #linkeddata #SemanticWeb
- @rowmyboat question becomes how do we agitate for change from vendors who are slow to move? #critlib
- Damned if I know. Now, tossing some of THAT in the bin & starting over -- I'm into that. #critlib https://twitter.com/kinderone1/status/661270293533630464 …
- @ekelistic We do do copy cataloguing but adjust; have LCC maps, look at other lib's doing similar; but also a learning curve for me #critlib
- @TriciaGimenez @wendycr_ @web_librarian @gonesquirrelly Ha. No, but there are plenty of terms that aren't easy 1=1 relationships. #critlib
- @violetbfox @TriciaGimenez @wendycr_ @gonesquirrelly True. Some metadata doesn't link cleanly. #critlib
- Don't disagree: SH should be a living object, but I don't mean to erase past terms, just deprecate #critlib https://twitter.com/gonesquirrelly/status/661270803036708864 …
A3 for #critlib: (Also, hi, I'm Jake in Washington, DC.) pic.twitter.com/hTY2xwKnGh- @ekelistic (should add that doing LCSH from scratch would also be a learning curve - Brian Deer actually makes more sense to me) #critlib
- @ekelistic (and Deer makes waaayyy more sense for our library patrons) #critlib
- @chiuchiutrain Don't know. Guess my point: Impossible to change the language of acad disciplines. #critlib
#critlib Here you can find (halfway down page) LC's response to the proposal to change "Illegal aliens" http://www.loc.gov/aba/pcc/saco/cpsoed/psd-141215.html …- Q4. How can we draw non-catalogers into the fold to help create change?
- I often ask our ref staff if changes I'm considering to display.search make sense for them & patrons. #critlib https://twitter.com/JessicaLColbert/status/661269281418706944 …
@JessicaLColbert and definitely starts with building good relationships across depts. territorital behavior is a huge obstacle! #critlib
