#critlib 10/20/15: gender and leadership

storified tweet archive of the 10/20/15 #critlib chat on gender and leadership, moderated by @catladylib

  1. hi aus librarians, up for some lunchtime #critlib? melb/syd/tas/canberra folks, this kicks off @ 12 today @aliangac  https://twitter.com/catladylib/status/656550368382492673 
  2. Excited to participate (or at least read through) this evening's #critlib chat! My first!!
  3. Let's kick off tonight's #critlib with introductions! I'm Annie, tonight's moderator. Academic librarian in Chicago. #letsgo
  4. Jennifer Vinopal, Librarian for Digital Scholarship Initiatives at NYU #critlib
  5. kyle. unemployed; uber driver. northwest indianner ("the region"). today's a lot of sit down & shut up for me. #critlib
  6. hey #CritLib I'm Netanel, metadata/cataloger out of Boston he/his
  7. I'm Christina, ref/ ins/ subject specialist librarian in Maine #critlib
  8. Wooo. Rachel, academic librarian in DC. Super excited about tonight's topic :) #critlib
  9. Dinah, av archivist in Brooklyn! Currently working on a research project about gender and LIS. #critlib
  10. Hey look, I'm finally around for a #critlib!Charlotte, Academic librarian in New York, emerging from the beginning of the semester chaos
  11. Hey everyone, I'm Elise, research data librarian & forever an archivist. #critlib

  12. Hi #critlib, Research & Learning Librarian + Instruction Coordinator at University of Arizona
  13. Hi #critlib! I'm Amanda, research and instruction lib at SCAD in Atlanta. I'm excited to talk with you all tonight.
  14. Elizabeth, librarianship is 2nd career, working in public library, LIS student, prob just lurking tonight #critlib
  15. Hello #critlib I'm Laura, student at @PrattInfoSchool and aspiring academic librarian!
  16. What up, #critlib. Jaime, systems librarian in NYC. Also binge watching Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries tonight.
  17. Greetings from the West Coast! My name is Gina & I currently work at an academic library in the beautiful state of Oregon. #critlib
  18. Hi #critlib! I'm Patricia, an academic/instruction librarian in Savannah
  19. April, academic lib in NYC. I have the distinct pleasure of working with @jvinopal. #critlib
  20. I'll throw out the first Q, but feel free to continue to introduce yourselves! #critlib
  21. Hi #critlib I'm Emily (not Ed Rabinski), academic librarian in Brooklyn.
  22. Hi #critlib! Academic librarian in NYC. It’s been a while, I’ll try to keep up amidst chaos over here
  23. Hi #critlib, I'm an academic librarian/cataloger in the middle of Minnesota. One eye on Twitter, the other on the #Cubs. #FlyTheW
  24. @AprilHathcock: April, academic lib in NYC. I have the distinct pleasure of working with @jvinopal. #critlib” And mine to work with April!
  25. Hi #critlib, I'm Maura at a college library in Brooklyn NY, late but happy to be here (and I did the homework!)
  26. meridith, community college librarian (reference & instruction), Indy #critlib
  27. Hi #critlib, I'm Rebecca - a librarian for an online social work program at a SoCal university!
  28. Hi #critlib! Ryan, Instruction & Outreach Librarian in Boise, ID Hi to everyone who—like me—didn't finish readings but care enough to join!
  29. Hello #critlib! LIS student in WA and former community organizer anxious to talk social justice in libraries. doing hw tho in&out of chat...
  30. #critlib - Hi, I'm Barbara in Minnesota. Looking forward to the chat. I, uh, glanced at the homework. Will this be on the test? 😁
  31. hey #critlib! Anna, cis, white, Bostonian, w/wife and two cats, Reference Librarian @MHS1791. #histsex scholar, fanfic writer.
  32. heya #critlib, im a public librarian from australia. apologies now if i can't keep up, busy busy busy but super into this topic
  33. Hey all, a bit late to #Critlib party, academic librarian from California.
  34. Lurking on #critlib cos I only get to be a librarian in my other life.
  35. Hi #critlib! Queer archivist in San Diego! (I'm currently rewatching Back to the Future, so I might be lurking in and out tonight.)
  36. hi #critlib! madison, librarian/fellow at @ncsulibraries. research & information services, and external relations. lurking as usual!
  37. Hi #critlib! LIS student here. Eavesdropping from DC!
  38. Hi #critlib trying to follow tonight, I'm a metadata librarian at the University of Nevada
  39. Hey y'all - I'm Ethan, a (sort-of) cataloger in South Florida... here to learn #critlib
  40. Signing into #critlib & catching up. Hooray! (This is Jenna, tweeting for the Barnard College Library in Nueva York.)
  41. Hi #critlib, Ian, academic librarian from nyc, joining late
  42. Hi #critlib I'm a black queer nerdy librarian living in Cambridge/Somerville MA. Formerly a tech librarian in academia. Currently unemployed
  43. Hi #critlib, I'm Kathleen, I work in Boston... mostly lurking :)
  44. Hi #critlib! So late because I'm putting together my reappointment packet/having anxiety attack.
  45. Hi everyone I am James. Ref & Inst librarian at UW-Whitewater. #critlib
  46. Hi everyone! I'm Lisa, Reference/History Room Librarian at a public library in CA's Central Valley. I'll mostly be reading tonight #critlib

  47. Q1: What’s with the erasure of women’s history from current LIS education? How does that impact leadership in LIS? #critlib
  48. a1: we subscribed to the history of the Great Men for a long time. Dewey & Cutter dominate discussions. #critlib
  49. a1.1 formation of library education based on the premise that female labor was cheaper & menial. #critlib
  50. A1 I'm not sure my LIS education really tackled gender in any meaningful way, which says something #critlib
  51. A2: when I learned about LIS hist. & abt the connection between women's work & status, it def. explained gender gap in leadership. #critlib
  52. A1: My LIS ed included at least a brief foray into "Arghhh Dewey exploited women", but yeah, it was brief. #critlib
  53. a1.2 this history is largely untaught in LIS education today. #critlib
  54. @rowmyboat mind telling us a little more about that? Let's unpack it. #critlib
  55. A1 Gender, like race and class, just goes unmentioned so often in library history, it feels like. #critlib
  56. In academic libraries: 68% female, 32% male. For academic libraries' directors: 57% f, 43% m. Their salaries: 58,202$ f; $62,961 m. #critlib
  57. A1 this is funny because i don't remember learning much about library history at all - it was line a unit in the intro class #critlib
  58. A1 #CritLib, its telling that we have CUTTER numbers, and DEWEY class and Henriette Avram gets saddled with MARC, men's names abound.
  59. A1 it's a bummer for one, and creates bias against hiring women for leadership positions (subconsciously or not) #critlib
  60. We're the Catholic Church, sisters do all the work, the priests hand out the wine #critlib
  61. A1 Or, unmentioned in a critical way. As though it just is normal that we are a profession that is 80% women. #critlib
  62. a1.3 women have largely been the proponents of revisionist history, which doesn't sit well with the white man. #critlib
  63. A1: It seems to perpetuate the trend of our field being mostly women, while still putting men in the leadership roles within lib* #critlib
  64. A1 Definitely didn't learn anything about women's history in LIS ed. Felt like there was a push to go away from "library" history #critlib
  65. A1: I don't remember learning *any* library history in my program. #critlib
  66. I learned basically nothing about library history until years after school, when I read on my own. #critlib  https://twitter.com/kellykietur/status/656638125930860544 
  67. #critlib A1 – Partially, it means that when we encounter gendered dynamics @ work, we might interpret them as our purely personal failings
  68. A1 It feeds into that neutrality myth we keep trying to sell--erase what is inconvenient and non-normative. Pretend to be neutral. #critlib
  69. A1 as far as archives go, i didn't learn ***anything*** about margaret cross norton until AFTER i graduated #critlib
  70. @kellykietur We learned about the "history of libraries," but it didn't include a damn thing about labor rights or gender. #critlib
  71. A1.4 - my comments are limited to American librarianship. #critlib
  72. A1.2 …and that the idea of women's history was ESPECIALLY irrelevant. 1st time I heard about women's hist w/ libraries was for this #critlib
  73. a1.5 when history of the library is offered, it follows the development of the book, not the development of librarians. #critlib
  74. A1: I don’t know the answer but a fellow student was told to “take outside classes" for race/class/gender analysis #critlib
  75. Side note to Q1: who even learned about library history? Without though, we're missing context for LIS issues of today (IMHO). #critlib
  76. @kcrowe i also have a very, very bad memory so i can barely remember what i did couple weeks ago, let alone libschool #critlib
  77. A1. I graduated without knowing Hildenbrand or @CoSwl. What does that say about creators of curriculum & priorities? #critlib
  78. What would the history of librarianship look like? Is it fair to ask: "whose librarianship?" #critlib
  79. .@AcornElectric Heck yeah that's what I'm seeing: men promoted, women stagnate #critlib
  80. a1.6 the only reason I can grasp at these things is extra-curicular research projects. #critlib
  81. A1: @catladylib I got part of one class sesh on library history last year, no mention of gender #critlib
  82. I see this happen SO often. Being in a diverse workplace, I see it happen even more when race/age involved.#critlib  https://twitter.com/oksveta/status/656638475676946433 
  83. A1 #critlib thinking abt lack of history of transwoman in libs - who are women in libs?
  84. A1 ppl saying schools didn't teach library history - ties into myth many of us sold "no history, Future of Libraries!" #CritLib
  85. A1 I learned much more from my MA program on intersectionality, labor, neoliberalism, critical theory. Nothing in lib school #critlib
  86. A1 Library history, like general history, is told from a perspective that often excludes contributions of women, POC, LGBTQ people. #critlib
  87. a1.7 the only gender history my program tackled was "women in tech" #critlib
  88. A1 Yeah, no history in my LIS program. Anthro seems like a field that addresses its past as central object of study. Do others? #critlib
  89. @kellykietur You are not alone. My grumpy feminist ears would've perked up @ a discussion of either tho so I'm sticking with it. #critlib
  90. @PoorCharlotte interesting! say more? if push was away from historical context of "library" what was it toward? #critlib
  91. A1: Good point in Hildenbrand about emerging history of IS lacking women, especially relevant in light of "info schools" #critlib
  92. #critlib Q1 hrmmm ... not sure what's taught these days. It wasn't something I recall hearing about back in the early 80s when I did MLS
  93. A1: I think my LIS education de-emphasized history in general, focused more on practice... #critlib
  94. #critlib – some history, interspersed in required courses, and usually linked to particular topic (i.e. copyright)  https://twitter.com/catladylib/status/656638764459147264 
  95. A1 I took an elective on the history of the book but that's as close as we got at Drexel… #critlib
  96. From the Hildenbrand article, I learned that in LIS hist. male leadership "legitimized" the profession. Explains some things eh? #critlib
  97. A1 + a bright line leading from "hire smart mousy women & pay them less" to how we are still positioned now. #critlib
  98. A1. P2: If we cannot value women in lib history, it sets women up for being devalued in the present. #critlib
  99. A1 I was lucky to have studied women's history/gender studies in undergrad... I think it changed my orientation to the profession. #critlib
  100. A1 my LIS education was positioned as ahistorical, emphasis on change due to tech innovation, not evolvng political/cultural forces #critlib
  101. A1 the practice of libnship is the history of women in libraries. Now want conscious appraisal #critlib
  102. A1: ... And diversity was addressed more in terms of the audience than the profession #critlib
  103. @feministlib towards the Future! The internet, metadata, etc. We were an iSchool, not a "library school" anymore #critlib
  104. I learned lib history in a few classes that, come to think of it, were taught by a historian. Not comprehensive, but some context. #critlib
  105. A1: Honestly didn't get deep into library history until I taught an undergrad-level Intro to Libraries course #critlib
  106. A1: tangentially related, but would love it if the default pronoun in LIS lit was "she" #critlib
  107. A1: TBH, the only history of the profession I got was equivalent of "In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue." Nice stories. #critlib
  108. A1 OH RIGHT, i do remember having to do a presentation on an important librarian and i did do charlemae hill rollins #critlib
  109. @catladylib Library history at my grad school was cursory, w/ men like Dewey as the focus & women relegated as background players. #critlib
  110. @elisedunham, I would love a reading list from the class if you still have it. :) #critlib
  111. A1 There's also something here about feminization. Our work is devalued bc we are majority female, has implications on leadership #critlib
  112. @KaraKaraPW Oof, now that's a question. I'll see what I can do after #critlib is done.
  113. A1 we had some library history in our foundation class at GSLIS - libraries, information, and society -not sure if all sections do. #critlib
  114. A1 can't do conscious appraisal using tools of libnship. Need tools from other areas of academy e.g. Sociology. Challenging. #critlib
  115. @GinaMurrell1 A1 Related, in first article - only POC/lgbtiq librarians mentioned "exceptional," v typical of 2nd wave feminism. #critlib
  116. A1 The wee history I learned about libraries during MLS was more on documentation, & therefore Suzanne Briet featured prominently #critlib
  117. @GinaMurrell1 this is why we are discussing this! Time to do start a new page in our ILS history! #now #critlib
  118. A1 #critlib as LIS gets more IS thinking about the lack of history re:women in tech
  119. Read Wayne Wiegand article (can't remember title)=>libraries a good place to stick (white) women (1) #critlib
  120. I'm using "they" these days MT “@lyttlelibrarian: A1: would love it if the default pronoun in LIS lit was "she" #critlib
  121. #critlib I felt that point wasn't well supported & I doubt that the history of IS actually is without women (tho historiography might be)
  122. @oksveta #critlib --ooph, this in reference to Hildenbrand's claim that IS necessarily signals end to (women's) history in libraries
  123. A1 I think the closest we got to history was having to interview a lib director. never looked at who got to be a director #critlib
  124. @catladylib Yes! It wasn't until writing papers requiring deeper study that I learned of women movers & shakers in library history. #critlib
  125. @edrabinski A1 I wonder if the lack of historical context in MLIS is due to degree being "professional" rather than "academic." #critlib
  126. @catladylib A1: I really wanted to know more history, and have heard about it more from history sessions at AAM than in school #Critlib
  127. A1: kind of OT but my prof briefly mentioned origins of public library w/out discussion it as an assimilation project to “civilize” #critlib

  128. Q2: How do we address gender bias in our perceptions of leadership styles? #critlib
  129. A2: Feminists on every hiring committee! (Only kind of joking.) #critlib
  130. A2 Consideration of how we think leaders should "lead" and what "leadership" actually means... #critlib
  131. It's important to understand what we perceive as leadership and reflect on how gendered that can be. #critlib
  132. this #critlib chat is way more interesting than writing an annotated bibliography… each new tweet got me like... https://t.co/9NTtfPuUZd
    this #critlib chat is way more interesting than writing an annotated bibliography… each new tweet got me like... pic.twitter.com/9NTtfPuUZd
  133. A2: My LIS students know that emotional intelligence makes for good leadership, but we still look down on emotional leaders, right? #critlib
  134. A2 Open reflective practice. Confront our biases. Talk about that process. Call in & out as able. #critlib
  135. @ginaschless @DinahHandel That's one thing I wish I could go back and change about my undergrad days, feeling catch-uppy now. #critlib
  136. A2 Also, I'm thinking about how perceptions about race also play into perceptions about how leaders should be. #critlib
  137. @CiotaRebecca #critlib Teach these women what "proper" lit is (picked by white men), & these women can just promulgate the canon (2)
  138. A2 i feel like part of this might have to be a general dismantling of the idea that assertive women are bitches etc.? #critlib
  139. @frannypak And I learned from K Wisser. The alma mater (i.e., the profs) shining here. #critlib Also, hi! :)
  140. A2. I kinda feel that might be asking the wrong question. Since we often define "leadership" with reference to masculine traits. #critlib
  141. @CiotaRebecca #critlib To counteract this history, women (librarians) should get into coll. dev. - and not only cis white mid class women(3)
  142. A2 Some depends on the org- are we talking only higher ed, public libs, schools? #critlib
  143. A2 also need to consider how to not only have more women in leadership, but also women who don't perpetuate status quo further #critlib
  144. A1/A2: And just because you may have women leaders doesn't mean you don't have gender discrimination #critlib
  145. @kellykietur that's what I was thinking. Being aggressive is fine for a man, but frowned upon in women. #critlib
  146. @DinahHandel esp. in the glass elevator article, where black male nurses were hardly seen as nurses #critlib
  147. A2 think more abt difference between "being a leader" & "being a team player" these are often same skills, but def gender disparity #critlib
  148. @kcrowe @edrabinski I think so. I often hear that lib school is too theoretical not practical enough #critlib
  149. .@beccakatharine maybe not that the question is wrong, but that to even get to ask it, we have first to interrogate the question. #critlib
  150. A2 Every hiring committee I've been on has hired a cis white guy. No matter what I say, what questions I ask #critlib
  151. @pumpedlibrarian What do you think are some ways that women perpetuate the status quo? #critlib
  152. A2 Having a woman in charge does not mean that biases in gender and favoring male librarians' voices over others disappears. #critlib
  153. @praise711 @pumpedlibrarian we can often be our own worst enemies, not supporting each other enough #critlib
  154. Q2 latest 8rs study shows half(?) university libns are women but dry facts no politics  http://www.ls.ualberta.ca/8rs/reports.html  #critlib
  155. @PoorCharlotte AH. I think I just escaped that wave, 2007-2011; also at a historically women's trade school which colored things. #critlib
  156. A2 I think there are such things as leadership traits, but I also think that anyone can possess them and be an excellent leader. #critlib
  157. A2: Before addressing gender bias in our perceptions of leadership styles, it would help to analyze any internalized sexism. #critlib
  158. @catladylib It is a political question- they all rely on gov't funding, but the overall org leadership differs + #critlib
  159. @catladylib @kellykietur I question if "aggressive" should be good at all (for m or f). Aggression is violent (esp for m). #critlib
  160. A2 Notice our affective responses to leaders. Try and catch if race or gender influences you and how you respond to authority. #critlib
  161. @catladylib I'm thinking about race and class here specifically, within a community #critlib
  162. A2.1 &conundrum w perception of women lead, expectation to be warm/caring, but looked down on (@beccakatharine said something sim) #critlib
  163. @librarybell I was thinking of what we value in leadership more generally and how that related to gender. What's valued? #critlib
  164. #critlib Q2 Our org structures are hostile to people who don't buy into chains of command and control. So many women say no thanks.
  165. A2 if your workplace employs mostly women, note the frequency with which the men in your org speak & how their opinion is regarded #critlib
  166. A2: Also, fuck leaders? Let's re-imagine our structures entirely. #critlib
  167. A2: I don't have a good answer for this, but I do feel penalized because my comm and work styles don't read as "feminine" enough #critlib
  168. @catladylib @librarybell Good question: what does leadership mean? What are leadership traits and how are they culturally specific? #critlib
  169. A2 Also need to distinguish b/w FEMINIST leadership and what society calls FEMININE leadership. #critlib
  170. The Role of women in librarianship, 1876-1976: The entry, advancement, and struggle for equalization in one profession. 1979 #critlib
  171. Q2 leaders as a #neoliberal concept related to entrepreneurship, assumes can fill bag w skills=leader, no artistry=bad lot? #critlib
  172. A2: Management in library field benefits from some trad "feminine" qualities, like listening as part of communication #critlib
  173. YES PLEASE. RT @rowmyboat A2: Also, fuck leaders? Let's re-imagine our structures entirely. #critlib
  174. #critlib (every time I stop to write a tweet I miss 50 more!)
  175. @catladylib The traits we value in "leaders" are traditional masc ones. Don't transfer to women, poc who face rejection for them #critlib
  176. A2 slantwise: I've often heard that I'm "soft spoken." Really doubt I'd ever have heard that if I had different gender presentation #critlib
  177. @violetbfox I don't think so (at least, that doesn't look familiar). I'll have to look for it #critlib
  178. A2: also where do gender non-conforming people fit in? #critlib so far it seems not anywhere comfortably...
  179. A2 because yes, agree w everyone here talking abt how a woman-dominated field does not equal one w/out gender discrimination #critlib
  180. #critlib We are lib orgs so ridic big on concentrating power, requiring permission, general infantilization of workers? Why why why??
  181. Goetsch, L. A., Watstein, S., & American Library Association. (1993). On account of sex:librarianship, 1987-1992. Scarecrow Press.#critlib
  182. Q2 leaders within the complement of libns vs ppl in "leadership" positions? Former likely linked to history, latter not so much? #critlib
  183. @bfister Because we're silo-ed, territorial, and paranoid about the future? #critlib
  184. @melbrarian I started doing this in our library senate meeting today and it quickly got discouraging. #critlib
  185. @elizbrary #critlib I've been called "demanding" & "abrasive" by supervisor b/c I asked for more projects.
  186. A2 Also, I'm down with having many leaders. No reason why one person has to be in charge- we can have ideas/make decisions together #critlib
  187. A2 oh and for goodness sake, if u running prof dev, think about this stuff. sick of dudes telling me how easy it is to get lib jobs #critlib
  188. @rorylitwin #critlib Vendors, retail, and above all shiny silly con valley boys.
  189. Also favor staying in a place to DO WORK rather than go to "leadership" job away from what they LIKE to do #critlib  https://twitter.com/bfister/status/656641803752443904 
  190. A2 My role models of radical lady leadership have come from outside LIS, not bc they dont exist, but bc they arent as celebrated #critlib

  191. Q3: How does gender impact advocating for pay/status for yourself or your staff? #critlib
  192. Q3. I wonder how many women in tenure-track positions tried to negotiate for higher pay compared to men who negotiated?? #critlib
  193. @violetbfox #critlib This one: Weigand, W. (1989). The development of librarianship in the United States. Libraries & Culture, 24(1), 99-109
  194. @bfister definitely some differences btwn leadership within the library, and being respected in politics of parent institution #Critlib
  195. A3 I dunno about everyone else, but I was taught to be nice and shut up. Makes it hard to stand up for myself. #critlib
  196. @GinaMurrell1 YUP. It starts with each one of us critically self-examining perspectives & behaviors & be willing to be called out. #critlib
  197. @catladylib I think being willing to admit that you are wrong is a stereotypically feminine quality & a great quality in a leader #critlib
  198. I'm building tools for people to remember, share and archive, in great detail, how they reached conclusions. #critlib
  199. a3: I get taken seriously because of my masculine presentation. The job search may be arduous but not as arduous as others. #critlib
  200. A3 It impacts how you advocate for yourself (like negotiating salary, knowing yr own worth), how you communicate decisions. #critlib
  201. a3.1 this is to say I and others have an obligation to fight when we're on hiring and budget committees. #critlib
  202. Oops, think I answered a Q2 from a previous chat #critlib oh well.
  203. A3: Guuiiillltttt. Get some nice feminized guilt here. #critlib
  204. Related: I know that I can get away with being domineering because of my cis, otherwise-feminine presentation. #critlib
  205. A3 Very difficult to ask for more when we are told we should just be grateful for what we have #critlib
  206. A3 how many even think to try to negotiate? Not given practice of skills and knowledge in school #critlib
  207. A3: It's uncomfortable because I know that the odds are not in my favor. #critlib
  208. @thomthomthom discussions about men and women leave me wondering when they'll understand gender binary #critlib https://t.co/Y8gQJnT00C
    @thomthomthom discussions about men and women leave me wondering when they'll understand gender binary #critlib pic.twitter.com/Y8gQJnT00C
  209. a3 maybe it's my background but i'm used to the attitude where you take what you're give or you gtfo so pay neg. is hard #critlib
  210. @sunnykins @ ALA, the all-gender bathrooms weren't successful. Saddened to see nonbinary marginalized. #critlib
  211. A3 When offered my current contract job, I negotiated for a higher salary, which is atypical for women to do. But I know my worth. #critlib
  212. a3 that said my current gig is uh...you take what you get of you gtfo. whoops. #critlib
  213. A3 Ohhhhh this question. So much seems tied to saying "well the men have more tech skills so they deserve more" #critlib
  214. A3 when certain feminine traits/expectations attributed to a person, their advocating for pay/raise can be viewed as "difficult" #critlib
  215. On the flip side, I was taught the opposite. And it's still a struggle to be heard/taken seriously. #critlib  https://twitter.com/catladylib/status/656643131388112896 
  216. @beccakatharine and the opposite too -- playing nice because I look "innocent" can be an "advantage". dangerous! #critlib
  217. @catladylib there's already a problem when we have a system where salary is 'negotiated'; individualism is part of patriarchy #critlib
  218. We all had to take mgmt classes in lib school. Did any incl disc of alt models of organization @rowmyboat & others suggesting? #critlib
  219. @beccakatharine @bfister So often we forbid creativity. We can be a deferential profession, ask to be seen, squelch ourselves #critlib
  220. @marxalot so much this. we don't need to/we can't/don't want to all climb those ladders. fuck those ladders. let me do good work. #critlib
  221. A2: anyone who doesn't see the shared strength and pragmatic advantage of collaboration in leadership risks success #critlib
  222. Also wondering abt lib advocating 4 itself w/in parent institution (where relevant)? Does issue travel up? #critlib  https://twitter.com/catladylib/status/656642680294907904 
  223. A3.2 ..but not providing all genders in org. ability/time/resources to gain NEW skills and improve. #critlib
  224. @pumpedlibrarian But I think that has a to do with the context of the negotiator - I know I can get away w/ more bc I'm cis & femme #critlib
  225. Disc's of challenging traditional leadership models make me abt dep't admins/ofc mgrs. We need need them & they nd recognition & $ #critlib
  226. @sunnykins @thomthomthom slowly, I think discussion about gender identity is happening at institutional level, but not fast enough. #critlib
  227. Conflict aversion gets in my way. Need to be liked. Wanting everyone to be happy. #critlib #feministleadership
  228. @edrabinski @rowmyboat NOPE it was taught by a business librarian and an upper management apologist. EVERYTHING was economic data. #critlib
  229. A3: Having MLIS sets a bar for pay/status that doesn't exist in museum field, with more tasks delegated to interns, volunteers #critlib
  230. .@DinahHandel I think that's the essence of good leadership. It's not being a visionary but helping others collectively have vision #critlib
  231. I definitely plan on advocating more for myself in the next go-around! Despite it being terrifying and intimidating @gonesquirrelly #critlib
  232. A3 taken me a LONG time to come to a positive view of my own self worth.feels insane to say to self: I deserve decent compensation. #critlib
  233. A3 I put a neon green "TROUBLE MAKER" sign on my door. I'm unapologeticlly outspoken. Didn't help in salary negotiations #critlib
  234. A3 getting male mgmt to take sexual harrassment from patrons seriously. "oh! it happens to me too! an old lady kissed me once!" #critlib
  235. @CiotaRebecca what wasn’t successful about them? i remember seeing pictures of the bathroom signs and feeling heartened. Policing? #critlib
  236. @beccakatharine Maybe. But also want to blame dependence on business for models. We can do better. #critlib
  237. @edrabinski I feel like it can easily come down to "wanting to be liked" vs "wanting to be paid (fairly)" #critlib
  238. A3 Has anyone had luck with a union on this question? I'm at will and thus all on my own #critlib
  239. @AcornElectric Other libns will help you for sure. If academic, hit up faculty associations. #critlib
  240. A3 when your salary is public information, it becomes a direct indicator of your value to the organization #critlib
  241. Men among us, if you don't mind, how do you feel when you negotiate/advocate? #critlib
  242. @sunnykins Some policing. Also, signs taken down. Men/women self-segregate, making it still hard for nonbinary to feel comfortable #critlib
  243. @ibeilin @catladylib overview of profession & individual members are viewed as feminine. places us lower relative to masculine+ #critlib
  244. A3 Salaries should not be secret. Should be a liberated and open conversation about who makes what, about how work/ers are valued. #critlib
  245. @ibeilin @catladylib and somehow that negotiation never includes, to quote, "fuck you, pay me." #critlib
  246. @rowmyboat Horizontalism for Working Librarians. I feel like we need this as a @mnylc workshop. #critlib
  247. @edrabinski I didn't. It's required now but I think a lot of people went through LIS without any mgmt training #critlib
  248. @edrabinski @rowmyboat tbh I'm grateful when I have an awesome boss to deal w/ muckety mucks, HR, etc. FOR EXAMPLE @lisarnorberg! #critlib
  249. A3 talking abt emotional labour in workplace as it relates to gender, having our concerns abt its impact on our work understood #critlib
  250. @edrabinski Feel that! I feel like I care about maintaining good workplace relationships at the expense of myself... blegh! #critlib
  251. @ibeilin @catladylib professions and mirrors structure of dominant paradigm, so masculine librarians also individuated from fem #critlib
  252. #critlib How do you neg salaries when equity is a concern? (I.e. your institution won't neg bc giving new employee more not equitable)
  253. @nanamartian @edrabinski Also, we're community-minded and want one another to do well, at least at my lib. Keeping the peace. #critlib
  254. @kshockey04 @edrabinski @rowmyboat Am I allowed to imagine a library future where Emma Goldman is taught as a model leader? #critlib
  255. @kshockey04 in my required LIS technology class I was repeatedly informed that tech ppl worship Sir Tim Berners-Lee #critlib
  256. A3: So gender plays into hiring for lesser positions, but lib field doesn't assume full pay is also subsidized by spouse salary #critlib
  257. @catladylib @kshockey04 to be expected to make your case for a good salary put the burden on the indiv 1/2 #critlib
  258. @librarybell when i was a grad student assistant the union negotiated pay raises, but i didn't directly do it #critlib
  259. @PodcastLib I'm way too old to ask for permission for any damn thing. Or apologize. (Also, have tenure.) #critlib
  260. @CiotaRebecca @sunnykins I noticed the self-segregation and it was weird. Like ppl missed the point. #critlib
  261. A3: Rest of county employees got raises last year. Not the library, though. (We get 90% of funding from county.) #critlib
  262. Well, I was getting settled into do #critlib when a coworker getting their MLIS needed to talk about ethics in archives for an hour.
  263. A3 & this too relates to perceptions of how hard we're working or how difficult our jobs are, esp if you are frontline staff #critlib
  264. A3 I *tried* negotiating, but walked away feeling silly for having asked... sure that's not my experience alone. #critlib
  265. really interesting and thought provoking convo, but now i have missed most of #critlib excuse me while i try and catch up.
  266. @OpOnions @bfister Though I'm partial to the fact that our A&I database is LISA :) #critlib
  267. @librarybell It's useful when salaries are publicly available, we have a union which helps w/transparency (also a public college). #critlib
  268. @lisaflepore at my former job, salaries were public, but it didn't fix this problem necessarily #critlib
  269. A3 My mom's salary was posted in the city newspaper each year bc she was a city librarian.& then ppl would call & complain about it #critlib
  270. A3 the biggest piece of bs is that somehow working with cool stuff means we shouldn't be fairly compensated #critlib
  271. A3.2 the perception in libraries/academics that we do what we do bc we *love* it makes salary feel like a secondary consideration #critlib
  272. A3 negotiating higher pay isn't a thing you can do if you've got no bargaining chip, and that feels true for almost all of us. #critlib
  273. A3 Ppl socialized as women may have a hard time showing pride in work, easier to be self-critical on self-evals, e.g.->pay inequity #critlib

  274. Q4: Does LIS leadership training address gender and discrimination? How can we make it better? #critlib
  275. Related to Q4, do many people even get leadership training? Certain ALA programs exist, but how many participate or are able to? #critlib
  276. Who defined leadership as desirable? Does everyone automagically want to be leaders? #critlib
  277. #critlib: am struggling not to contribute angry/frustrated statements about my experiences. Can't retain a professional voice if I do.
  278. @ibeilin @catladylib @kshockey04 And individualized, rewards go to those already benefitting from {gender, race, class} privilege. #critlib
  279. A4 Individuals from #critlib and elsewhere are making it better. But that's exception. Still a long way to go.
  280. @catladylib well i APPLIED to emerging leaders but i haven't heard anything yet ugh #critlib
  281. A4 #critlib had a lib mgmt class that said "leaders follow visions" w/o defining the structures that allow vision
  282. @kshockey04 after months of only guys, I brought it up with instructor. I got to talk abt Turing being gay which was great #critlib
  283. @OpOnions having a union helps, but is no guarantee of pay equity, unfortunately @librarybell #critlib
  284. Some thought provoking tweets coming across on #critlib. Today's discussion is on gender and leadership in LIS.
  285. A4: I took a leadership class in my MLS program and it most definitely did not address gender and/or discrimination. #critlib
  286. @MissEmilieLib I think "professional" is far too often used to mean"shut up" #critlib
  287. I am a supervisor at two libraries at IU and never got leadership training @catladylib #critlib
  288. A4 I don't even know what leadership training looks like. Feel like my leadership style is influenced by punk/riot grrrl DIY ethos #critlib
  289. A3?4? We have talked about having salary form / database (anonymous) to see $ compared w race/gender id/etc.-would be of interest? #critlib
  290. A4 Training is so ad hoc, and I get the sense some of the ALA programs are a bit "popular crowd" cliquey #critlib
  291. a4 my only leadership training is from boy scouts and we all know how problematic they are. #critlib
  292. A4 #neolib all about stripping out politics so why would our "leaders" want to bring up the uglies when not considered relevant? #critlib
  293. @catladylib it's kind of BS that EL is like "you have to go to the confs but you might have to pay for it all yourself lol" #critlib
  294. This brings up the issue of invisible labor. What happens to the leaders if the workers walk out one day? #critlib  https://twitter.com/gonesquirrelly/status/656645774458023936 
  295. @mauraweb but still some puzzling discrepancies in pay, and many people scratching their heads, no? @librarybell #critlib
  296. .@lisahubbell, no but God help the librarians married to "real" academics- lots of maddening assumptions tied up w PhD spouse! #critlib
  297. @gonesquirrelly I think we all want efficacy and a chance to make things better. That's leadership. No I do not want to be a boss's #critlib
  298. @catladylib i think it definitely limits the kinds of people that might apply #critlib
  299. A4 Not as far as I've seen. Seems like that thing where we go LA LA WE'RE ALL EQUAL and ignore gender/race disparities... #critlib
  300. .@lyttlelibrarian agree even if we love our work we should still be well compensated. #critlib
  301. @catladylib Leadership training is offered in "professional development" courses at my library. Attendance is voluntary. #critlib
  302. A4: Meh. Those with such platforms rarely have a decent analysis of it. *snooore* #critlib
  303. Yep--being accused of being emotional is problematic bc it's equated to being female, therefore weak. #critlib  https://twitter.com/MissEmilieLib/status/656645792032124928 
  304. @lyttlelibrarian that pernicious lie "love what you do you'll never work a day in your life" -- sure, in the post capitalism #CritLib
  305. @catladylib #critlib I know a lot of lib people are in leadership roles not by choice.
  306. @melbrarian @catladylib yes I agree- I even deleted the tweet! admitting you're wrong IS a great quality, but is not valued at ALL #critlib
  307. A4: took an entire mngt class (required) where an entire class was dedicated to gender issues in library work places. #critlib
  308. @readywriting #critlib is gr8. Consider following @pumpedlibrarian et al. for a more steady stream of critical IL and libr talk
  309. A4: I feel like I was "trained" by piecemeal leadership roles here and there through volunteering and lib* jobs. #critlib
  310. A4 Kinda wondering "Does LIS training address gender?" full stop. "Does LIS training address discrimination?" full stop. #critlib
  311. @catladylib A3 I was taught it was rude to talk about how much money people made #critlib
  312. @ibeilin @mauraweb My salary is defined in a band with others across campus, so variation in background, education, etc #critlib
  313. @catladylib A4 Maj of librarians being women seems to make gender a less visible issue. We do better at least acknowledging race. #critlib
  314. A4. My program let us explore leadership roles & take risks. Imperative to allow LIS students to lead in order to gain confidence. #critlib
  315. Librarianship as a profession is not paid well BECAUSE it's woman-dominated. #critlib It's prob 78% or less than what we should be paid.
  316. YES PLEASE. Especially hard, I think, in a perfectionist attracting field like librarianship. #critlib  https://twitter.com/PodcastLib/status/656646744000831488 
  317. @ibeilin But it gives us information. That matters. Keeping it secret insinuates that we're all in on something, that we all agree. #critlib
  318. @lisaflepore I agree - I'm now in a situation where it's all rumors and whispers, and grumbling #critlib
  319. The concept that race/gender/ability "isn't relevant" to a given subject is willful blindness& silencing #critlib  https://twitter.com/gonesquirrelly/status/656646456640581636 
  320. @lyttlelibrarian That line gets thrown at teachers, social workers, so many other "service" professions which are maj female. #critlib
  321. @catladylib I hear a lot about not enough staff -> you get hired for a job and get loaded w/ responsibilities not in description #critlib
  322. Then that change is happening from below. Are bypassing "normal" channels of leading "change #critlib  https://twitter.com/bfister/status/656646581987487744 
  323. A4 #critlib resisted leading (burnout) but did take req. Archives Mgmt class in grad school, more recently Effective Supervision workshop
  324. Speaking of invisible labor, what abt extra- hire or substitute libs in PLs? We get no insurance, no pension, not enough hours #critlib
  325. @kcrowe although there is still disparity despite LIS being 80% women, you make a really good point. It's even more complex w/race. #critlib
  326. @courtums That's…um… quick. Sadly, I'm simultaneously thinking "At least they were addressed." #critlib
  327. .@barnlib last night in my all women class we agreed to stop prefacing every comment with apology or self-deprecation; not easy. #critlib
  328. @kshockey04 but if we get lost in the stacks, you can orienteer our way out, right? #critlib
  329. A4 I can't wait for feminist leadership book to grapple with these ideas/be a resource for people. #critlib
  330. The parallels between teacher education and LIS programs being made clear on #critlib is striking. So many professional allies to connect...
  331. @kshockey04 it was always drilled to me in retail to NEVER ask what your coworkers made #critlib
  332. Susan Faludi estimated that for every 10% increase women in a profession, wage fell by $700 (1990 dollars) #critlib  https://twitter.com/CiotaRebecca/status/656647218741518336 
  333. A4 #critlib management class v. business school-y, no radical theory, very much "how to be a good middle manager" & comply w/status quo
  334. @kshockey04 nevertheless i found out that new male hires were getting more than me and i was PISSED #critlib
  335. @gonesquirrelly Nope. As the child of administrators, I know the price of being a "leader" in academia & I am reluctant to pay it. #critlib
  336. @ibeilin @lisaflepore Where I am "privacy" causes resentment among staff - creates a sense of scarcity, competition for resources. #critlib
  337. @jessicahochman @barnlib One of my resolutions has been to stop saying sorry unnecessarily. Its tough! #critlib
  338. @catladylib @modbrarian I've seen it too. Someone else leaves, someone has to take the lead in the meantime. #critlib
  339. A4 I attended a leadership training program at Cornell, & the ppl the trainer quoted were 100% men. Mostly white. #critlib #microaggressions
  340. @DinahHandel maybe you told me that and it inspired me! I have to give you credit :) @barnlib #critlib
  341. @jessicahochman @barnlib I love the "STOP APOLOGIZING" conversation. I remind myself of that constantly. #critlib
  342. A4 unsupportive & inflexible work environments do not encourage female leadership, most training addresses symptoms, not causes #critlib
  343. A4 #critlib I'm pretty skeptical of emerging leadership rhetoric - who benefits from telling these stories about the profession, right?
  344. A4.A way to improve leadership training is to discuss gender discrimination openly, focusing on the why factor with employees #critlib
  345. A4: for me, it means practicing standing up for myself & remembering how good it feels, even when scary #critlib

  346. Last question! Q5 What does feminist leadership look like to you? #critlib
  347. A5 I'm not even sure sometimes. But collaboration, sharing, mutual support & respect is a start #critlib