#critlib 2018-01-22: Wikipedia, open access, and social justice

Archive of the January 22 2018 #critlib chat on "Wikipedia, open access, and social justice," moderated by @voxpopulare. For more info about #critlib, including past and future chats, visit http://critlib.org

  1. Hello #critlib fans! Our chat "Wikipedia, Open Access, and Social Justice" will begin in 30 minutes. Please click here for questions and readings:  http://critlib.org/ 
  2. Hello everyone--welcome to our #critlib chat #Wikipedia, #OpenAccess, and #socialjustice. I am @voxpopulare, Collection Mgmt Librarian and Wikipedian at St. Cloud State University in St. Cloud, MN. Let's introduce ourselves--who are you, where do you work, and why are you here?
  3. Hopefully tuning in to #critlib chat for a bit! Excited to talk #wikipedia and hear what others are up to!
  4. Hi everyone, I'm Teresa at University of Nevada, Reno. Interested in learning more about Wikipedia to help use it in instruction sessions and to teach about OA. #critlib
  5. Hello #critlib! I'm Leslie, Amer. immigrant in Berlin, (old) MLIS student at @IBI_HU, working part-time at a special library in a museum.
  6. Hi #critlib I'm Naomi, Digital Ed Librarian at UMich in Ann Arbor. Excited to follow along while I multitask!
  7. Hi, #critlib! I'm Meg, and I lead open research initiatives at the City University of New York and currently serve as president of @WikimediaNYC. Like @libnaomi, I'm following along while I multitask. Looking forward!
  8. Hi #critlib I'm Lisa, academic librarian in California, mostly lurking this morning.
  9. Hey #critlib folks, I'm Mark, scholarly communications librarian at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland
  10. Hi #critlib! Megan, info lit librarian in Alaska. Students in my credit-bearing class that starts next week will spend the term editing/creating Wikipedia articles...1st time trying this, should be an adventure! :)
  11. For folks who follow me and don't know #critlib yet, it's a regular chat about Critical Librarianship. Join us! More info here:  http://critlib.org/ .
  12. @meganjwatson Cool idea to use Wikipedia authoring as a teaching tool! Looking forward to hearing how it goes. #critlib
  13. Hi #critlib! Matthew here, a medical librarian in Massachusetts. Mostly gonna be lurking today. 👋
  14. Hi #critlib, academic librarian in VA here! Excited to follow along as I can during my office hours
  15. Q1. How have you engaged with Wikipedia in the past week, month, or year (personally or professionally)? Is there anything that keeps you from engaging more than you do? #critlib
  16. Nice to meet you all! Let's begin our discussion with ...Q1. How have you engaged with Wikipedia in the past week, month, or year (personally or professionally)? Is there anything that keeps you from engaging more than you do? #critlib
  17. A1. I haven't engaged a lot lately! Although, in the past I've collaboarted with student groups to host Wikipedia edit-a-thons. #critlib
  18. A1 Mostly as a user! Interested in helping out with 1Lib1Ref, so starting to explore the backend and how the process works. #critlib
  19. A1 I *use* Wikipedia constantly. I know how to edit, did #1Lib1Ref last year. But tend to write/edit in little bursts, then lapse for awhile. #critlib
  20. This term I'm helping a professor with a Women's and Gender Studies class assignment. Students will be contributing to biographies of women scientists #critlib
  21. @estregger That's great! Last year during #1Lib1Ref there was a challenge to add new bios of women (can't remember who organized(; I wrote one. #critlib
  22. I do have a quick answer to Q1: I am hitting "random" once a day on Wikipedia this year, partly to try to engage with it more, partly to see what a year of random information turns out like (i.e. what's rep'd, what's not).  https://twitter.com/NoetheMatt/status/948219610180083713  #critlib
  23. @NoetheMatt Oh you are a brave soul! Finding citations for random information that needs citation. :)
  24. A1 mostly casually engage with Wikipedia as a user, recently interested in getting involved with an edit-a-thon #critlib
  25. A1. I use Wikipedia all the time. Often for quick intros into concepts or historical things. (Most recently, to read more about the Pentagon Papers after seeing The Post) #critlib
  26. A1. Been engaging a bunch with @WikiEducation lately as I work on getting my course up-and-running. Did some editing years ago, but fell off. Got busy/wrapped up in other things. #critlib
  27. Hi #critlib 🙋‍♂️ I’m Max, and I’m an academic librarian in Virginia, who is mostly lurking.
  28. A1 I used to use my DE>EN translation skills to improve English-language articles about Berlin, Germany, etc. But haven't for awhile. #critlib
  29. A1: Something I'm struggling with in #1lib1ref this year - Citation Hunt identifies places where citations are needed. Sometimes I'm pretty sure the statement is flat-out wrong. When do I know that with enough certainty to remove it? #critlib
  30. So we have a mixed crowd here--those who have not edited and some master Wikibrarians! What keeps those who have not edited from editing? #critlib
  31. A1.2 I took a workshop almost 3 years ago on how to edit it. I haven't actually done it since then, but I want to learn more ways to engage than by just being a passive reader! #critlib
  32. A1: like most of us I use it all the time (& can hardly believe we are still having debates in 2018 about its validity as a starting point - not here but elsewhere in libraryland) but due to time I don't do much as an editor #critlib
  33. Hey #critlib I'm an academic librarian outside Seattle WA. I love Wikipedia and enjoy finding new uses for it in infolit sessions. Looking forward to this chat.
  34. @estregger I'm a novice Wikipedian but my understanding is that you don't need 100% certainty to act. The idea of Wikipedia is that the net of Wikipedians will catch your mistakes, no? #critlib
  35. @voxpopulare Mystery of the process, not thinking about it (meant to do it over the weekend, and then kept forgetting). #critlib
  36. A1. I use Wikipedia, refer students to it to find search terms on their topics, and have occasionally made minor edits.
  37. @voxpopulare my own lack of knowledge about the process and wariness about working with moderators/internet-y people (cleary i'm uneducated on this) #critlib
  38. @voxpopulare I think the first time I tried on my own I got some error message, or my edit wasn't accepted (I don't remember) & I just got discouraged. And then distracted by other things so never went back to keep trying #critlib
  39. @gnomadlibrarian Try try again! You can always revert an edit or a deletion and defend it.
  40. A2? I think editing Wikipedia seems more daunting than it is in reality. Even though I know from experience that editing can be quick & painless, I often think I don't have time. So I can imagine this is even more of a problem for those who've never done it. #critlib
  41. A2 Last year for #1lib1ref there was a Wikipedia webinar in Germany for librarians. Most of them saw editing as very daunting, and also saw tracking down citations as not librarians' job! #critlib
  42. A1 #critlib a little less than a year ago I created a libguide for a student group's Wikipedia Edit-A-Thon for Black History Month, and working on that got me interested in wiki-editing-as-activism.  https://guides.lib.uw.edu/wikipediaeditathon2017 
  43. A1. I would love to work with students on #wikipedia editing. It doesn't fit smoothly into any of the curriculum I support. #critlib
  44. @leslie_kuo @estregger That's right @leslie_kuo! Wikipedia is a community, not just an "online encyclopedia". Getting something started will lead to improvements and expansion over time.
  45. A1. Personally, it has occurred to me to write a Wikipedia article about my mother, and suggest the same to others. Could build from obituary and add references. #critlib
  46. @libnaomi @voxpopulare I hear this a lot! The good news is that there some easier ways to get started, and there's always more to learn, no matter how long you've been editing #critlib
  47. Have you all heard of the #WikiProject directory? You can look for articles in your area of expertise that need expertise:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Directory  #critlib
  48. @leslie_kuo That's really interesting! Do you think that the professional assumptions/skills about librarianship are very different from English speaking areas? cc @fischerdata @wmde #libraries #critlib
  49. @voxpopulare @estregger I think the majority of users (and even librarians?) don't perceive the Wikipedia community though because most of us use it constantly in a hands-off way. #critlib
  50. @lisahubbell What are you teaching/supporting? There is a WikiProject out there for everyone. :)
  51. @sadads @fischerdata @wmde Apparently! I was really surprised, being originally from the US where librarians often help students with citations. I brought this up and my german colleagues said that's not the case here. #critlib
  52. @sadads @fischerdata @wmde I believe @fischerdata was one of the organizers of that #1lib1ref webinar, if I remember correctly. #critlib
  53. Hi everyone! Kelly here. Sorry, im late to the party. #critlib
  54. Q2. In general, how does Wikipedia supplement or enhance your work or that of your students, faculty/staff colleagues, or general library patrons? #critlib
  55. Q2. In general, how does Wikipedia supplement or enhance your work or that of your students, faculty/staff colleagues, or general library patrons? #critlib
  56. A2 Right now mostly as starting place for learning, but think can be good for teach source evaluation, concepts of information access, whose voices are being represented, etc. #critlib
  57. A2. working as an open access advocate, OA & Wikipedia go hand-in-hand. when scrolling through a wiki article's references, nobody wants to chase down toll-access papers #critlib
  58. @marklclemente Totally! I have this argument with Wikipedians all the time--either all access or no access. :)
  59. A2 As a librarian, my job is to make information accessible and to make sure my community has the tools they need to use that information effectively and responsibly. I don't see my wiki* work as any different! #critlib
  60. A2: I find Wikipedia to be a great entry point into getting students to talk about what a scholarly convo looks like, why citations are important/what they do, what background info is/isn't, etc. #critlib
  61. A2 #critlib students I work with are perennially delight to find out I'm not going to shut them down for looking at Wikipedia. I like to show them how to use the References @ bottom to get to sources they can use for their assignments.
  62. A2. As my patrons are in some sense Wikipedia's *readers* I feel it's my role to make the information they encounter more reliable, but also to make them discerning consumers of its content. At the same time, removing stigma is often needed first. #critlib  https://medium.com/@jakeorlowitz/things-my-professor-never-told-me-about-wikipedia-561d669af9b0 
  63. What is amazing to me is the following I am getting through the Wikimedia @wikilgbt Twitter account...#youth, #librarians, #writers, #celebs, and #activists...from around the world! Global engagement in so many languages too. Talking about #LGBTQ Wikipedia! #critlib
  64. @referencebird Exactly--and do you show them the quality scales too, to show that the articles are peer reviewed? Faculty get a lot out of that...
  65. @voxpopulare @marklclemente I thought one of the ideas of #1lib1ref is that librarians might have access to sources others do not? Including ones behind a paywall. What do you think? #critlib
  66. What helps #Wikipedia work is tweeting about what you are doing and asking folx for help in finding resources, translating, getting images or photos, etc...lots of folx are here to help. :) #critlib
  67. @leslie_kuo @marklclemente This is true--also, librarians can show folx that a particular book is in their library by linking the book title to WorldCat :)
  68. A concern I've held is that, as reliant users of Wikipedia, universities should provide financial support for the platform. Unfortunately, most library budgets preclude this. #critlib
  69. A2 The museum where I work (in the library) is very pro-Open (Open Access, Open Science) so Wikipedia is def. part of the discussion. #critlib
  70. @leslie_kuo @voxpopulare @marklclemente Both are true, not incompatible. Wikipedia wants good & canonical sources, & prefers OA when possible; WP usage is also a great argument for making things OA. #critlib
  71. @estregger Join the FB page "Wikipedia + Libraries", or the multiple Twitter accounts related to Wikipedia--guaranteed someone is watching. Once you know the main players and who knows what, you can reach out to them personally--they will be happy to help. :)
  72. @pibrarian I love this idea! I know there were proposals to include monetary support of open projects in ARL stats, but I don't think Wiki* was included in this idea. Hmm. . . #critlib
  73. @estregger @meganjwatson Right. I like to ask, "What kind of citation would you look for to verify this fact?" Blows their mind AND is a real, hard editorial & research question. #critlib
  74. @leslie_kuo @voxpopulare @marklclemente This is one the great strengths we bring to Wikipedia, we can find and access sources others can't. #critlib
  75. @megwacha @pibrarian This reminds me of something I forgot in A1: I donate (modestly) to Wikipedia every year. #critlib
  76. Q3. Based on the readings about Wikipedia as activism and indigenous Wikipedia, what do you see as the potential for Wikipedia as a site for activism or eliminating information gaps about/for marginalized populations? #critlib
  77. Q3. Based on the readings about Wikipedia as activism and indigenous Wikipedia, what do you see as the potential for Wikipedia as a site for activism or eliminating information gaps about/for marginalized populations? #critlib
  78. #critlib A3. The article on Indigenous knowledge in Wikipedia made me wonder about Wikipedia's views on cultural history. Is a tribe/people's knowledge about themselves considered more valid than scholarly works about them?
  79. #critlib A3 (cont.). The article also mentioned the importance of tribal control of access to information about themselves and their cultural heritage--how does that fit in with the Wikipedia ethos?
  80. A3: I need to do a closer read of those articles, but so many possibilities here. One of my hopes for my course is that students, many of whom are Alaska Native and/or from rural areas, will take this opp to enhance Wikipedia/represent their communities #critlib
  81. A3 I think it will take continued, organized action to use Wikipedia to counter underrepresentation of people/groups. We all know that left on its own, technology recreates society. OTOH the woman Wikipedia page writing marathon last year was very inpsiring! #critlib
  82. Hi #critlib! I am Phoebe; an engineering & science librarian at MIT & a Wikipedian for the last 15 years; I also wrote a book about it. I also was on the Wikimedia board. I'm thrilled there's so many librarians participating! Ask me anything whenever (outside this chat too).
  83. A3. One of the great advantages to Wiki is the ability to be responsive and current in a way that is challenging with trad publishing. You can fill gaps that are wider than only on-Wiki. #critlib
  84. @violetbfox Great question! As always, lots of debate. Wikipedians at conferences are hearing from #Dalit, #Roma, indigenous, non-Western, nonliterate and #LGBTQ populations about cultural diversity of information dissemination, access, authority, and notability.
  85. @violetbfox A3 Good point. It's a recurring discussion around Wikipedia that its definition of truth is essentially "If it was published, it's true." #critlib
  86. @violetbfox Once tribal members become editors they have as much "clout" as any other Wikipedian. And their work will receive support. Folx also develop separate wikis using MediaWiki for their work linked to Wikipedia but not directly within it.
  87. @phoebe_ayers Was thinking of you when I saw the topic! We're all better off with you in this chat! #critlib
  88. I think this may be (I hope it is!) a conversation we have in my class when talking about working on articles related to Alaska Native communities/issues/language/etc. #critlib  https://twitter.com/violetbfox/status/955525987676119040 
  89. @sadads @violetbfox @WhoseKnowledge Attitudes are beginning to change, and there are thematic user groups and folx who see Wikipedia as a platform for social justice work who support and defend non-Western definitions of notability and authority.
  90. @stacymallison But don't you need traditional publishing (either scholarly or news publishing) in order to make claims on Wikipedia and/or make your case that the subject belongs on Wikipedia at all? #critlib
  91. A3. Pairing Wikipedia with @wikidata can make for powerful interventions into digital knowledge structures. And working it back into our systems. #critlib
  92. Q4. Based on your experience and the readings, how do you engage with Wikipedia an information resource, a community, or both? #critlib
  93. Some folx answered this, but after we chatted about what we did...Q4. Based on your experience and the readings, how do you engage with Wikipedia an information resource, a community, or both? #critlib
  94. @voxpopulare @violetbfox @WhoseKnowledge Most definitely: One of the tactics we may have to support more broadly is publishing the original source materials on commons, and helping expert communities publish the most supportive materials that can be used as citations for Wikipedia. #critlib
  95. @violetbfox @stacymallison Nope. Some local notable folx are only written about in blogs or Tumblr accounts and those will pass depending on situation!
  96. A3 #critlib on the one hand it's so exciting to see projects like these. It must be very meaningful to see one's own language represented online in this way. On the other hand, I also have q's about how cultural knowledge that's private can be protected from outsider eyes.
  97. @voxpopulare @violetbfox @stacymallison I would qualify this slightly; yes, you need reliable sources outside WP. What a reliable source is varies based on topic... There is a real issue for topics that historically weren't written about by scholars though: wp tends to replicate those biases. #critlib
  98. Q5. How can we use Wikipedia more effectively as a tool to support global engagement among scholars, activists, information professionals, and people in need of open information resources? #critlib
  99. Q5. How can we use Wikipedia more effectively as a tool to support global engagement among scholars, activists, information professionals, and people in need of open information resources? #critlib
  100. Also, never introduced myself to #critlib: #glamwiki Strategist @Wikimedia : huge fan of this twitter convos, and one of the folks who developed #1lib1ref.
  101. @referencebird The tribe that Benoit worked with were given authority to make that call.
  102. @violetbfox This is true. Clarifying: we can get something up quickly if something takes place. An award, for example.I should have said academic publishing. For example, community newspapers. But we run into the "notability" challenge with a number of communities. #critlib
  103. Q4 Another aspect: I (and folks I've worked with in and out of the library) regularly turn to Wikipedia for open access / CC-licensed content that we can re-use in our own projects. #critlib
  104. @voxpopulare @violetbfox @stacymallison But Stacey is of course right that eg we have coverage of global disasters and political topics in a way that no US newspaper ever does, bc we're not limited by publishing or audience interest constraints. #critlib
  105. @phoebe_ayers @violetbfox @stacymallison The historical issue w WP is that some editors/reviewers took a black & white approach to reviewing content; I think now people are becoming more aware of diversity in all aspects of this work.
  106. @phoebe_ayers @voxpopulare @violetbfox @stacymallison Phoebe, thank you for this comment. That's what I thought Stacy and Violet were getting at. #critlib
  107. @referencebird Yeah, that's much of what I was trying to get at. I understand there are Wikipedia editors who are sympathetic to this sensitive issue, but since Wikipedia as a whole is built on idea of unfettered access to info, I have doubts about ability to reflect cultural choices. #critlib
  108. @leslie_kuo Yup--GREAT source for photos (although some should not be on there but that is another story...)
  109. @voxpopulare As a librarian and painfully honest person, I definitely suss out whether the photo licensing/licensee looks plausible before using :) #critlib
  110. In the one minute we have left--what is the one #Wikipedia action you will take during #1lib1ref? #critlib
  111. @leslie_kuo Oh I know you and all of our library family will! I am just saying that some folx put stuff up there and don't always have permission. I do not tattle on anyone--I just shake my head :)
  112. Also, you have a little #Wikipedian #librarian community here now in this chat...take note and reach out to us when editing or doing #Wikipedia stuff! #critlib
  113. @voxpopulare I know what you mean. Someone at my FPOW once uploaded a pro photographer's copyrighted photo of our building to the Wikipedia page about us and said it was "public domain." #critlib
  114. Can you make a Wikipedia page about a hashtag? #critlib
  115. @stacymallison @violetbfox Absolutely. Fun historical trivia: WP broke into public consciousness for many after we wrote about the 2004 Indian earthquake in real time, much faster than traditional press. But the 1st global disaster covered by Wikipedia was 9/11. #critlib
  116. @violetbfox @voxpopulare I keep forgetting to write an article on Thomas Fountain Blue. :( #critlib
  117. If someone makes a German Wikipedia page about the current tag #reichenhetze (discussion of racist behavior and microagressions) I can make an English version. #critlib
  118. @leslie_kuo Yes! If there is not one already, go for it! :)
  119. Ok, dear #critlib folks. It's bedtime in Berlin so goodbye and thank you from me! Thanks @voxpopulare for the great moderation and information.
  120. @leslie_kuo Leslie you can reach out to Wikimedia Deutschland and see who can help...may I recommend User:LaKritzolina?
  121. @leslie_kuo Thank you Leslie, and guten nacht! Please stay in touch re: Wikipedia work. I am User:RachelWex on Wikipedia. :)
  122. @estregger If you know better, make the change! If the original editor is watching the page, they may contact you on your Talk Page to discuss. Stand firm and defend your edit/citation. :)
  123. @jessamyn @referencebird @violetbfox @tararobertson This is an ongoing debate/ issue in WP for sure. Good work coming out of @WikimediaCA & Australia w indigenous languages & communities. Also small lang WP communities. #critlib
  124. @pibrarian Could support in lots of ways that aren't direct cash: * Editing as part of ppls job descriptions * Making things in collections open & free * Advocating for OA * Hosting editathons, classes etc Wikipedia needs good editors more than money. #critlib
  125. @pibrarian Which is not to say money isn't needed too! But the really scarce resource is time & knowledge. #critlib
  126. @phoebe_ayers @pibrarian @klmccook teaches library sci students how to edit Wiki. Forget convincing resistant colleagues, instead train our replacements #critlib
  127. @pibrarian Right now there's roughly 200 articles/active editor on English Wikipedia. WE NEED YOU. No joke. #critlib
  128. If folx want to see #Wikipedia global engagement in action, follow @wikilgbt--gets really hot especially during #WikiLovesPride season. Lots of help for @WikiWomenInRed , @artandfeminism, @afroCROWDit and #WikiLovesPride #critlib
  129. Thank you all for a great chat, thank @violetbfox for inviting me to facilitate, and edit loud and edit proud! #critlib
  130. 🚀 in late to #critlib, but I see a lotta potential for wikipedia editing as part of regular research habits, e.g. adding factoids as you read a book/article, as a form of public note-keeping  https://twitter.com/voxpopulare/status/955528899991044098 
  131. wikipedia allows you to supply relevant quotes from print or closed-access materials, so it's a good stopgap measure to get passages online & open #critlib
  132. @allanaaaaaaa Yes! You are my hero! Also, I have been telling library folx that they can add "recommended reading" sections to Wikipedia articles in areas of expertise, like I have done with "Foodie":  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foodie 
  133. I'd also really like to see scholars encouraged to edit wikipedia articles as the "open" corollary to their research output if they're publishing in closed-access journals - "just summarize your own work, if nothing else" #critlib
  134. @allanaaaaaaa Also hyperlink the books to Worldcat so folx can see if their library owns a title :)
  135. @pibrarian Mandatory caveat to the above: don't edit for pay in the PR sense - to burnish image of something on WP. Editing as part of job description eg as a topic expert or educator or cataloger who checks refs or... #critlib
  136. it would be a great student project too: "add 5 facts with citations to one or more wikipedia articles, along with your term paper" #critlib  https://twitter.com/lisahubbell/status/955520644527022081 
  137. it's valuable when reading/exploring fiction that has a historical, religious, or etc. referential tie-in (I found wikipedia editing wonderfully enriching when I read Midnight Robber, e.g.) #critlib  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_Robber 
  138. which is, bonus, a great way to enhance the representation of marginalized ethnic groups or religions - read some fiction, research the references, & wikipedia-edit to report what you've learned #critlib
  139. .... and of course I have archivist Feelings about encouraging research with digitized primary sources by adding wikipedia citations to heritage holdings #critlib